[Jess84]

I’ve been observing a sleep window of 2:30 am to 9:30 am for a while now,at the start I would get up on time when the alarm went off at 9:30 felt tired during the day but never got sleepy at all at night in the hours leading to my sleep window,continued this for about 3 months in the hopes that the sleep would become deeper but it never did just the same night after night.

After noticing this I thought well the simple answer is that I’m not sleepy enough low sleep drive so I need to implement SC by getting up after an hour or so in bed which I’ve been doing for over 2 weeks what I’ve noticed is that I’m up around 3:30 and go back to bed at
6:00 problem is somewhere between 6 and my wake up time of 9:30 my body takes over and I end sleeping until like noon or later sometimes this is really bad as it makes it hard to feel sleepy at leading to the SW.

If this is occurring than obviously I’m sleeping somewhat but at the same time its not enough length wise or quality wise,I’m thinking to take a nap a few hours before the SW that way I’ll be getting something and as crazy as this sound pull an all nighter to build the sleep drive because observing the SW getting up on time hasn’t led to any better quality sleep tried it for 3 months at the same time implementing SC I have the other problem of falling asleep 2 hours before my wake time so I at a loss as to how to regain my sleep and would like advice on what exactly can be done.

• This topic was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Jess84.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Jess84.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Jess84.

[Martin Reed]

It sounds as though you’re putting in a lot of effort to make sleep happen/avoid nighttime wakefulness. This, in itself, might be the reason why you are continuing to struggle.

The sleep window cannot make sleep happen, just as stimulus control cannot make sleep happen. These techniques simply help reduce the amount of time available for nighttime wakefulness and give you the opportunity to make any periods of unpleasant wakefulness more pleasant by doing something more enjoyable compared to staying in bed when being in bed doesn’t feel good, respectively.

I wonder if all this effort might be better invested in training your brain that wakefulness isn’t a threat or a danger — something that needs to be avoided at all costs? If you can get to that stage, sleep becomes truly effortless — because there’s no more trying.

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[Connor]

Hello mate,

I’ve read some of your posts on other forums but I see you’ve been inactive for a while now. I hope you’re able to reply to this message.

Since august 2021 after a heavy bout with insomnia ive had exactly the same problem as you’ve described with being in a weird awake/sleep wake phase all night long, however I have a very physical job so maintaining sleep restrictions is extremely hard. The longer it persists the more and more I obsess over it.

I feel the true problem for me is that I don’t crave my bed and sleep as I used to. Even during sleep restriction where my head is literally unable to remain upright, I still don’t have the desire I once had, there’s always an underlying worry on my mind due to countless unrest full nights.

One thing that is helping a lot is taking 3.75mg of mirtazapine along side melatonin. My sleep physician said to only take the melatonin if you’ve had too much light prior to bedtime.
Currently i feel great as It knocks me out for most of the night – I don’t plan on taking this for long just long enough to work out what my next game plan is to what I’m going to do next, as I believe this can only be cured naturally.

If you read this please could you give me a few tips on your experience and an insight of how you’re getting on now ? Id be very great full.

Connor

[Jess84]

Thanks for replying to this old thread from 2022,lately I’ve changed my whole strategy and thinking on this problem from being so obsessive with the quality of the sleep because for at least 2 years now I’ve been sleep depriving myself in the hopes of having a sleep crash and resetting my circadian rhythm.

What I’ve found is that by staying awake for almost 24 hours has not resulted in deeper sleep but the opposite of being wired,thinking back to the 2 times I overcame this it was due to accepting the current situation and trying my best to get tired or prepared before the SW,the nights I slept better I woke extremely exhausted which is better for sleep drive where as trying to stay awake and survive on 2 or 3 hours sleep or even less led to alertness probably because if you get under 6 hours of any quality of sleep the body produces much more cortisol.

So what I’ve learned is that in order to build the sleep drive you must sleep or rest what ever quality you get will result in being more exhausted,the way to get even a decent quality rest or sleep is to really wind down before the sleep window then the challenge becomes waking the next morning.

It is true that no one can control their sleep aside from doing your best to quiet your mind through winding down taking it easy,if you work a physical labor job the most important strategy would be afterwards to be alone and simply relax because 8 hours what ever amount of constant going going is a lot of stimulation but at the same time it should create some amount of exhaustion but that’s the best approach to start winding down immediately after work.

The times I recovered from the low quality sleep I wasn’t implementing any sort of sleep window just going to bed for 8 hours waking exhausted and kept moving throughout the day. The whole struggle in the last 2 years of trying to create sleep drive I’m done with not saying I no longer have a sleep window because I do of 7 hours but dropping the whole concern obsessiveness with my sleep I’ve adopted now because the former was not working at all.

Not saying I’m recovered or anything but this is a better approach than obsessing and trying to create deeper sleep because the only thing we have control over is when we wake up so a realistic way of recalibrating your circadian rhythm would be to think of push someone on a swing as your rhythm,when your rhythm is out of wack you sleep poorly the same as if the person on a swing not getting a push or being pushed lightly is gonna slow down so the you need a harder push the way to do this is by waking up on time,its the only thing we have control over and that is my main focus getting up a little earlier and keep moving (exercise) and that’s all I can do so there’s no point in ruminating over if I’m getting tired enough.

Finally to state once again that getting up earlier moves our timing for sleepiness to set in earlier in the late evening.

• This reply was modified 1 years, 9 months ago by Jess84.
• This reply was modified 1 years, 9 months ago by Jess84.

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