[Mona352]

I had my second CBT-i therapy. I’m having trouble with anxiety and worrying about sleep even while doing sleep restriction. What can I do to get through this?

[Scott]

Hey @Mona352!

Welcome to the forum! Worrying about sleep certainly makes achieving good sleep difficult and that can lead to an anxiety loop – worrying about sleep at bedtime -> poor sleep that night -> heightened arousal during the day because you didn’t get great sleep the night before…and then the cycle starts again. CBT-I can assist in breaking that cycle by tackling the thoughts and behaviors about our sleep. Have you discussed your anxiety with your therapist?

Scott J

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If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Mona352]

Thank you for the response. I am definitely on an anxiety loop. It’s been a snowball effect made worse by getting no help. It’s not something I can just think my way out of. I’ve seen a psychologist twice who is only trained for doing CBT-i. I do teletherapy just once a month. I really need to see someone more often. She’s not helping me with anxiety. I’ve had GAD most of my life and never had therapy for it. I also have chronic depersonalization disorder which is made worse by lack of sleep. It’s been so difficult to find someone who treats the whole person.
I have multiple issues and there are things like meditation and breathing correctly no one is helping me with. She wanted me to start going to bed at 2 am and get up at 7. If I stay up later I get worse anxiety and I can’t concentrate on doing anything to pass the time.

[Scott]

The speed each individual restores their sleep is different from person to person and really depends on the person’s patience and commitment to the techniques. Some people respond well to behavioral changes while others make progress in their sleep by only improving their relationship with their thoughts but CBT-I addresses both issues that perpetuate sleep disruption. I relate beginning a CBT-I program to a starting a fitness program – don’t expect immediate results but if you remain consistently committed to the program, you’ll begin to see benefits. I can’t speak to the CBT-I program your therapist has designed for you, but if you’re uncomfortable or struggle with your sleep window, I’m sure you can have an open discussion with him/her and find out if there are modifications you can agree upon.

Scott J

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Mona352]

What if it began from something occurring in the bedroom where you sleep? Last night I was up three times and only got to sleep after 5 am with the help of medication. I went to the listing room and fell asleep on the sofa right away. When I went back to bed I couldn’t get back to sleep. Negative and worrisome thoughts won’t stop

[Scott]

@Mona352,

What you’re experiencing isn’t uncommon for those who have insomnia. If you’re unable to sleep while lying in bed and are able to relocate and fall asleep on the couch it’s considered conditioned arousal. You’ve learned to associate your bed with unpleasant wakefulness and your body initiates the arousal system when you get into bed which makes sleep much more difficult. This association can be changed but it can take time. Your sleep window and stimulus control techniques that your therapist has or will be sharing with you can be very helpful in changing this relationship with your bed. Hang in there – I understand you want immediate results but you’re taking the necessary steps to resolve your sleep issues for the long term.

Scott J

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Mona352]

I’ve been following my CBT-i program this week. I’ve barely slept for the last 4 days. Yesterday I could do a few normal activities but after last night’s poor sleep I’m so washed out and tired. I can’t think clearly enough to do anything. I felt positive about things last night but today I realized it’s too debilitating without sleep and setting the alarm at the same time every morning gives me even more anxiety. I feel hopeless. When does it get better? I don’t know what to do

[Mona352]

Is anyone else finding this therapy extremely difficult? I feel like a rag doll and can barely function. My sleep is so little I can barely think. I may get off this forum because I’m too exhausted and have so much anxiety. I already had generalized anxiety disorder before insomnia. I give up

[zac]

Hi Mona,
I understand your situation and have recently been there myself. Something to consider, read my posts in the below link, especially my last post in that thread:

Does Sleep Restriction Therapy work with an underlying Anxiety/Depression cond.

[Martin Reed]

Implementing CBT-I techniques is hard — no doubt about it! Are you working with a therapist? If so, I’d encourage you to share your concerns with them — there are always tweaks and modifications that can make CBT-I techniques more tolerable during the early days, which do tend to be the most challenging.

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Mona352]

I hear lots of success stories but I’d like us to reach out to those here having difficulty despite therapy. Having preexisting anxiety or depressive disorder can make recovery difficult. Who has a problem due to other circumstances aside from insomnia?

[Chee2308]

Hi Mona
I’m sorry to hear about your issues. Is your depression/anxiety centered on insomnia or is it about other things in general? Unfortunately, nobody here is qualified to give a professional medical assessment on your condition, it is probably better to consult your medical professional in person.

This forum is about cbt-i, which offers guidelines on how to improve sleep and make it more likely to happen via behavioral techniques and interventions. This includes things like setting a regular bedtime schedule, which makes you more likely to get sleepy by a certain time and getting out of bed whenever you can’t fall asleep. Note that cbt-i is never a sleep generator, sleep is always generated by your own body. In a general sense, sleep drive builds up the longer you go without it in the same way as hunger does the longer you go without eating. It is a natural homeostatic process which your body controls, like breathing, eating and regulating your body temperature. So this means everyone knows how to sleep, it is impossible to forget or lose this, we are just born with this innate ability and stays with us until we die. It is often when we actively try to control sleep in some way, like taking medications, or doing sleep efforts such as modifying our sleep patterns like going to bed earlier, allowing way more time in bed, meditation, drinking sleepy teas, taking melatonin,endlessly researching sleep on the internet, getting on forums such as this one in an effort to seek a fast cure or fix and etc, not achieving the desired results and getting stressed over it which makes it worse. Despair then sets in and spirals out of control.

In general, insomnia has two components to it, the first is the actual sleeplessness part and the second is purely psychological, which is a set of unhealthy, learnt and obessesive thoughts about sleep, which stems from a fear of poor sleep. Cbt-i is very effective in resolving the sleeplessness, usually within a few weeks but the psychological part is much harder and often continues indefinitely for many people. There is no way to overcome this, except allowing yourself to get used to that fear until you get desensitized by it that that it no longer bothers you and the fear of poor sleep slowly dissipates. Good luck and best wishes!

[Mona352]

I appreciate your response. I know this is not the place for professional advice but I’m usually just here for opinions and ideas. You’ve been very helpful. I’m here for discussions about CBT-i and getting acclimated to the process. I understand all the details. I have a Stanford based therapist who only works with sleep difficulties and has been very informative and precise about my step by step plan and the science behind sleep. I wish I didn’t have so much anxiety which hinders the process/

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Mona352.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Martin Reed.

[Scott]

@Mona352

I see you’re continuing to find sleep difficult but it can get better for you! Have you discussed your challenges of implementing CBT-I with your therapist?

Scott J

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Mona352]

I’ll talk with the CBT-i therapist next month and will tell her the problems I’m having. She’s an excellent listener and very empathetic. I’m probably not the only person finding this difficult. We all have our own difficulties with things. I was very positive and get a little overzealous sometimes after we speak. When I expect too much I get disappointed. Thank you for your input. That’s why I’m here

[Author]

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