[Nao]

Hello,

I had insomnia for almost a year and intermittent insomnia and lots of sleep anxiety before that. I have now been enrolled in Martin’s 8-week course for 6 weeks now and would love to connect with other clients who are in the same boat or who have completed the course. My sleep has improved during the course, but it feels very slow; I’m still allowed only 6.5 hours in bed each night after weeks of CBT-I, as my sleep efficiency is not consistently strong (some nights it is, other nights I’m still awake for a bit during the night).

I also still worry about fully implementing the half hour/half hour rule, because I don’t want to train myself to be out of bed during the night or to get out of bed earlier than when my sleep window ends. I also can’t always tell when I’m awake or asleep after I wake up during the night/morning.

Lastly, I worry that my sleep window won’t be allowed to get longer and I won’t get back to enjoying more sleep during the night and feeling rested again during the day.

I’d love other people’s experiences and suggestions here.

Thanks.

[Martin Reed]

Welcome to the forum, Nao!

Your concerns about the half hour-half hour rule (stimulus control) are understandable — however, implementing this technique doesn’t lead to you training yourself to be out of bed during the night or out of bed earlier than your sleep window ends.

What it does do is train you to associate the bed with sleep, and nothing else. The only way to do this is to make sure that all you do in bed is sleep, and nothing else. So, if you are in bed and not sleeping, you get out of bed until you feel sleepy again, then get back into bed and repeat the process.

This technique also helps build sleep drive in the short-term, making sleep more likely on subsequent nights. It also leads to far less mental fatigue because, instead of being in bed tossing and turning, worrying about sleep, you know exactly what to do — you get out of bed until you feel sleepy again.

This can actually be a very empowering technique — because when you get out of bed, it’s impossible for insomnia to win because you aren’t actively ‘trying’ to sleep.

Many people worry about the sleep window restricting sleep, but the fact of the matter is an appropriate sleep window is always longer than your average nightly sleep duration. So, it doesn’t restrict sleep (which is why ‘sleep restriction‘ is an awful term) — instead, it helps build sleep drive and consolidates sleep.

Consolidated sleep is far more restorative than fragmented sleep, and this is why a shorter chunk of good sleep is far more beneficial and helps you feel far more refreshed in the morning than a really long period of light and fragmented sleep.

The sleep window doesn’t hold you back from making progress, it helps you make progress. Keeping this in mind can help alleviate any concerns you have about the technique.

I find it hard to get people to contribute to the forum when their sleep starts to improve because most people see little reason to be involved in an insomnia forum when they no longer have insomnia! However, I can link to a few encouraging posts for you:

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/please-help-2/#post-28911

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/sleep-restriction-or-act-for-insomnia/page/15/#post-28703

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/sleep-restriction-or-act-for-insomnia/page/16/#post-28775

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/difficulty-falling-asleep/#post-28777

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/6-months-after-completing-martins-course/

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/cbt-insomnia/#post-28681

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/you-can-do-it/

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/martin-reeds-insomnia-course/#post-23706

https://insomniacoach.com/forums/topic/please-read-this-martin-reeds-cbt-advanced-sleep-therapy-program-is/#post-15102

I’ll also ‘tag’ some individual members in the hope they might be able to jump in and offer some tips and reassurance:

@karenp | @preeced |  @s-flaherty | @IngridS | @craig50 | @elcid

I hope this helps, and that others can chime in with their experiences, suggestions, and some support!

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[KarenP]

I’m about to complete my 8 week course, and I can empathize with your concerns.  I do want to increase my sleep window; I have the same window as you.  Sadly, when I think I’ve kicked insomnia to the curb, I’ll have a 3 hour night (or two) a week.  Personally, I tend towards anxiety, and when I examine my day, there is usually a reason behind my poor sleep.  I, like you, just want to sleep 7 hours again.  I’ve adjusted to the window.  My biggest problem is gauging 1/2 hour and deciding to implement SC.  I hate getting up, but I need to tell myself that this will help me in the long run.  I’m also tempted to add 1/2 hour to my sleep window when I have a poor night.  Hang in there, I hope this is reassuring.  I know that knowing I’m not alone is comforting to me.

[Nao]

Hi Martin and Karen,

Thank you so much for your responses, and Martin thank you so much for being a great coach and support system.

It is helpful to know that although each of us have insomnia that takes a slightly different shape and our paths may vary, we are not alone. I too had some great weeks and nights in this program, and then when I have successive nights of “worse” sleep after many weeks of doing this, I find it discouraging. We are supposed to graduate and be “cured” of insomnia in 4-8 weeks of CBT-I, no?

When I did CBT-I for the first time, last August, I ended with a sleep window of 7 hours and was consistently getting good sleep then, so I’m frustrated that I’m not there this time yet.

I’d like to hear from people who didn’t cure their insomnia by the end of this course but kept going with the protocol.

Thank you.

[Steve]

Karen – Can you tell us how much sleep you were getting before you started Martin’s course? In Nao’s threadline, you state that after 8 weeks, you still have a 6.5 sleep window. Are you feeling refreshed after your 6 hour on average sleep? Thank you.

[KarenP]

Steve, I do feel good after 6 hours of sleep.  I’m so grateful I guess!  I moved my window from 11:30 to 6:00 am and I actually enjoy my morning time alone.  Staying up later is more difficult for me. My problem is getting to sleep.  Last night I actually drifted off to sleep while hubby was talking to me, a first for me!  Once I’m asleep, I normally have no problem falling back to sleep,  ie if I get up to go to the bathroom.  My insomnia started in January.  I did 2 weeks of sleeping pills and ended up in hospital with a reaction. I found another CBT I  course online that did not have email support like Martin’s.  When I started that course I was having 3 – 5 nights of insomnia a night.  At the end of that course I was down to 1 night a week insomnia.  I felt like I needed to. continue with a program and Thank God, I found Martin’s course.  When I started  this course 8weeks ago, I actually only had 1 night or so of insomnia a week.  My problem is that I suffer from anxiety, I’m actually in therapy with a CBT I therapist.  (She doesn’t  specialize in insomnia). During these last 8 weeks, there have been 3 weeks where I was either traveling, or had some serious anxiety producing incidents that pushed me back to 3 nights of insomnia.  I was hoping to go out stronger, but I know that this program works.  I’m going to go on as a “graduate student”.  I realize that this process takes time.

[Nao]

Thank you for your responses. I don’t feel as refreshed as I’d like with this window, especially after a not great night and fragmented sleep. I worry if it’s not at least 5.5 hours. I also have anxiety and sleep anxiety, and take an ssri and see a cbt therapist for it. I also do a lot of mindfulness, yoga etc. to try to relax more.

I will likely also stay on as a grad student. I wish I were further along at this point and have a hard time not comparing myself to others who cure their insomnia much quicker than I am through CBT-i. What makes them succeed? Just when I think I’ve got it, I have some bad night(s) again.

[Steve]

Hi Nao. I think it’s the fragmented sleep that is killing me. I get 5 to 5.5 hours many times but not in one shot. It’s split up. And what is really odd, the more sleep I get, sometimes the worse I feel the next day. As an example, If I get 6 or more hours, I sometimes get vertigo attacks the next day. But if I get no more than 5, I usually don’t get the attacks. I’ve gotten to the point with my insomnia that it is affecting my eyes and I can’t focus them anymore. I’ve read where the eye muscles are affected by insomnia and it is hard to control them, causing the inability to focus. Hope I can get more sleep soon. Good luck to you with your final weeks in the program.

[Author]

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