[ezgeez]

Hello there–

Has anyone else had experience of depressive episodes immediately following bouts of insomnia? I have recently found it difficult to cope with these, and it would be helpful to hear others' insights and advice.

Ta!

[Martin Reed]

Thanks for getting this discussion started. Could you describe what you mean by depressive episodes in a little more detail? I wonder if what may be considered a depressive episode by one person would be considered something else by another. Since we're discussing such a serious subject, I think we should make sure we're all on the same page!

Hopefully some other members will chime in on this one and make this an extremely useful (and supportive) discussion topic.

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[ezgeez]

Hello Martin,

To clarify,

If I haven't slept for a day or two, I subsequently experience quite a severe slump in mood that lasts for several (3-4) days. I can only describe it as depression. I feel very low, I become prone to crying, etc. I suspect that some of it may be anger or despair at 'losing control of my sleep' again.

[Martin Reed]

Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully some other members will chime in with their thoughts/experiences. I may actually include this one in the next Insomniac Bulletin (an email we send to all forum members).

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Silent Night]

Hi ezgeez and martin

My latest episode of insomnia has been ongoing for just over a month now. I thought I was coming out of it a few days ago, when I actually slept for a 5 hour period, then subsequent 4 hour period, but my sleeping seems to have regressed again. I definately feel low and depressed with bouts of tearfullness and aggitation, sometimes when I least expect it…such as at work. I do worry this could develop into full blown depression such as I have experienced in the past. So, I sympathise with you ezgeez and hope you start feeling better soon.

[Dozydame]

Hi All,

I think for me, there is a definite link between insomnia and depression. I'm just not sure which comes first. Sometimes I don't realise I'm falling back into a depressed state until I've had a few sleepless nights, but insomnia is a really a strong indicator of depression. It would be interesting to know if anyone is insomniac but doesn't suffer from depression. It might be helpful to know if they are linked or whether, in fact, one actually causes the other. Anyone??

[ezgeez]

Hello everyone,

A few days ago I had my dose of mirtazapine upped to 45mg, which has helped pull me out of my recent pit.

Silent Night / Dozydame, I think depression and insomnia are co-morbid, i.e. if you have chronic insomnia it is more likely to make you depressed and vice versa. It is hard of course to tell which comes first because people have different things happening in their lives. I personally feel it's useful to look at how to make your life happier more generally instead of devoting too many resources on insomnia itself, as sleep does not respond well to pressure!

Silent Night, I am very sorry to hear you have had a rough month. Have you looked into counselling? You can ask for it through your GP.

Best to all

ezg

[Dozydame]

Ezgeez after over 40 years of chronic insomnia, I am only too well aware of how pressure affects sleep patterns. However, after trying every kind of treatment known to man, it has become apparent to me that not a single one of the therapists I've been to actually has much of an understanding of insomnia – it's causes, effects, effective treatment or the type of person likely to be afflicted with it. Until I joined Insomnialand I had never met or communicated with any other person who had actually suffered from or understood it. So this forum has given me the opportunity to gain some valuable insights which I might otherwise never have known.

Since it's unlikely there will be money to be made out of treating it, there seems to be very little interest in researching and understanding insomnia among medical proffessionals. Therefore I feel it's incumbent upon those of us who suffer with it to do as much research of our own as we can. That way, there may come a day when there might be some treatment options available besides sleeping pills or chamomile tea! Or even better, perhaps some preventative techniques which potentially susceptible individuals might employ to avoid it in the first place.

[ezgeez]

Dozydame,

I'm sorry to hear you've suffered from sleep problems for so long. I did not mean to sound patronising. When I first started trying to treat my insomnia I embarked on this very focussed therapy called Sleep Restriction. It is one of the most empirically-based methods–by that meaning that, if you try to locate papers on scientifically based behavioural treatments for insomnia in a website like psycNET, it comes up a lot. However, despite sticking to it meticulously, it did not work at all for me, and the result was a redoubling of despair and depression afterwards. With the help of a counsellor I saw that there were other issues in my life worth looking at, and the sleep did start improving once I started looking at those.

As for there not being any money in insomnia… I don't know what the situation in Australia is like but the two private sleep therapy clinics in London, the Sleep School and the Sleep Centre in Harley Street, seem to be making a killing…

[Martin Reed]

'ezgeez' wrote:

As for there not being any money in insomnia… I don't know what the situation in Australia is like but the two private sleep therapy clinics in London, the Sleep School and the Sleep Centre in Harley Street, seem to be making a killing…

I think this is more to do with the way health insurance often includes other sleep conditions (such as sleep apnea) but limits insomnia treatments. Furthermore, sleep apnea is often treated with expensive equipment (CPAP) whereas insomnia is frequently 'treated' with (relatively cheap) medication.

http://www.insomnial…sleep-disorder/

I have no doubt that private sleep clinics are doing very well for themselves, though!

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[yamerias]

I would like to throw my hat into the arena, but with a twist.

I have been suffering with depression since I was 14, but never took medication to try and manage it until about 11 years ago.

The odd thing is that I have bouts of sleeplessness since then…and I was going to ask if a) is it a case that insomnia/sleep issues are a symptom of depression, and 😎 should insomnia be classified as a mental Heath issue.

Not sure if that makes sense…hope so.

[jitterbug36]

I just got out of the hospital for depression caused by my insomnia. So yes, they definitely go together. Now I'm chained to a benzo that I will have to taper because it's making me sick.

[Helen]

I do occasionally suffer from depression. I have been mildly depressed since about December last year and have been taking citalopram, as it helped me a few years ago. I don't know if it's related to the insomnia, but I suspect it is. I recently doubled my dose from 10mg to 20mg. I'm getting better, but it has taken a while. I will stress that it was mild, but lost enthusiasm and was indecisive and procrastinated a lot.

I would agree that insomnia is not being addressed by NHS.

[ezgeez]

As an update,

Up until about a week ago my drug regimen consisted of 2mg melatonin (Circadin) and 30mg mirtazapine (remeron) nightly. In recent weeks I experienced some brief but truly spectacular depressive episodes on top of my insomnia (crying bouts, hopelessness, etc.). As the melatonin was a relatively recent addition to the regimen I suspected that it may have had something to do with these. I discontinued the melatonin about a week ago and my mood has generally stabilised a lot.

I have come across a few more mentions of depression worsened by melatonin supplements online, so this may be something worth looking out for.

jitterbug, have you looked at any of the behavioural therapies for insomnia? They might be of help in getting you off the benzos.

[Dozydame]

'ezgeez' wrote:

When I first started trying to treat my insomnia I embarked on this very focussed therapy called Sleep Restriction. It is one of the most empirically-based methods–by that meaning that, if you try to locate papers on scientifically based behavioural treatments for insomnia in a website like psycNET, it comes up a lot. However, despite sticking to it meticulously, it did not work at all for me, and the result was a redoubling of despair and depression afterwards. With the help of a counsellor I saw that there were other issues in my life worth looking at, and the sleep did start improving once I started looking at those.

I first went to a Sleep Lab around 30 years ago. They were really more interested in Sleep Apnea, but they suggested a treatment they called Sleep Deprivation Therapy. I suspect this is the same as the Sleep Restriction you describe. Like you, I found it totally unhelpful and in fact made me feel a whole lot worse. It would appear that not much has changed in 30 years if they are still recommending this treatment. I have been to another Sleep Lab in the last 8 years or so, and although they didn't recommend Sleep Deprivation, they didn't come up with much else either. Once again it was clear they were far more interested in Sleep Apnea.

I agree with you that focussing too much attention on your insomnia is very self defeating and these days I try not to get upset about it no matter what happens or what I have to do the next day. I have found I feel much better if I just try to relax and get as much rest as I can without worrying about whether or not I am actually sleeping. If I am too restless for that I just read for a while until I feel sleepy and try again. My number one rule, though is NEVER look at the clock to see the time or how much sleep I might have had or how long before I have to get up. I have found over the years that I always feel less tired if I don't actually know how little sleep I've had. I also use “Sleep Tracks” Whole Night on repeat which I believe helps me to sleep, but seems to help me relax more even if I can't sleep. Since I've started using it religiously every night, some months now, I have almost completely stopped using any kind of drugs. I might take a Temazepam once every couple of months if I really feel the need, but almost never. Interestingly, I haven't taken anti depressants either since I started using “Sleep Tracks” even though I have had a lot of anxiety recently. In the past, I have usually found the two go together. I am not reading too much into this at this stage, but just making the observation.

I have written about “Sleep Tracks” in an earlier post for those who don't know about it. Incidentally, it isn't like relaxation music – it is more like “white noise” that is supposed to balance your brain chemistry. It is about the only thing I've tried in 40 odd years that actually helps besides drugs.

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