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Hi sorry for not responding earlier I’ve had a lot of things on the go lately too much tbh but as far as my sleep goes there’s been some breakthroughs and now unlike before meaning the last few months I feel as though now there is a system that could be implemented that could reverse this as I’ve been getting tired once again and have a good grasp of what works like for instance I’ve learned that lingering for as much as a half hour to an hour after the alarm goes off even sitting up in bed will kill sleep drive so its imperative that I get outta bed and this was what I was doing before when I got over this problem also having a routine during the day that gets me out of the house and some human interaction is important as well I use the library mostly for this and I’m involved in a book club there and at night I sit on the
couch and watch tv for a couple hours and then listen to a bit of talk radio in a dim room
just really non stimulating stuff.I totally understand what you’re saying about keeping in shape especially being a female us guys its not as important if we let ourselves go where as with females they tend to be judged harshly on how they appear but just remember that any other exercise besides light aerobic will probably keep your body and mind charged and make it more difficult to sleep where
as the lighter forms of exercise will have the opposite effects things light hiking and walking are good examples.As for videos about meditation not really because most of what I learned was from the
site anxietycentre and that was mostly contained in their program which is on the site and
it is very informative and thorough goes through meditation and deep breathing other
forms of deep relaxation and how adrenaline wreaks havoc on our bodies and keeps us
amps up which also literally creates a chemical barrier to sleep.I’m not young(36) and no not a college student and I’m like the last person that would go to
a library but because of the anxiety disorder and now chronic sleep problem I’m doing anything possible to have a routine because there is no way I can work atm with both
of these problems its way too much at least the sleep has to return both of these things at
the same time are doing me in as far as energy this year has just been brutal for me but I’ve got to look past it and figure out how to get outta this problem.Yes when I recovered before twice once it was just no sleep whatsoever if you can believe that I was literally awake for four days straight and really worried about my health until my body just gave in to sleep but it was pure and hell the second time it was the light sleep phase that I’m going through now and basically I implemented the strategy I’m trying right now of getting up when that alarm goes off and if I’m not tired during the day not taking a 40
minute nap that built up sleep drive and eventually I broke the or overcame the arousal system to eventually fall asleep during one of those naps and then started sleeping at night and that is what I’m trying to do now.It’s always nice to receive your notes, so no worries there. Also, I responded to your note a couple days ago, but looks like my reply is once again held up in moderation.
No breakthroughs just yet, in fact I was faring much better a few weeks back. This can be particularly frustrating, as you want to be able to see some progress – even if marginal!
Having a routine is great, especially when you have one that works. I’m very organized in my personal life, so I’ve always had a routine for the most part. I mentioned how I used to run in the gym for an hour each day. That changed to 30 mins every other day since the insomnia, and this week I completely eliminated all running. I walk for 15 minutes each day on the treadmill. Funny thing, is that a short run in the morning used to make me feel so energized, whereas a 15 minute walk (at a moderate paste) makes me feel so weary and fatigued! Not sure why!
But now I’ve given up my workout, there are not many sources of dopamine left;) So totally hear you about not being a Library person. My life used to feel so exciting before, but having gone thru all the pain and suffering with the insomnia, I feel like it’s shifted my perspective on what qualifies an exciting experience.
Totally understand about not working thru all this. I had taken time off work, but my bills quickly mounted, and knew I had to find a way to keep all the balls afloat. So navigating work and sleep has been a juggling act. But these days, I’m more mindful about slowing things down- even if it’s just to sit in silence for a few minutes a day. How often do you meditate? And do you do it at home? Also what’s your sleep window now, or do you not use one at all?
Another thing- is that I had purchased an Alpha-stim device. Not sure if you’ve heard of this. I was using it for a few minutes a day, and I noticed that it was making me quasi-sleepy at night. However, the minute I stopped using it, the effect went away. I’m in a bit of a quandary on whether to use it again, as I feel like it could become a crutch- and I want to be able to get to a place where my body is feeling sleepy on its own accord.
The final thing- is that I also tried scaling back on the TV. So last night, I decided no TV after 7pm. What a nightmare it was! I literally forced myself to read for a full hour (a novel that one some literary price where the husband ended up killing his wife to please his clan!), then listened to one of my favorite podcasts, then had absolutely nothing to do! Do you have any good podcasts to share?
Aah, you can ignore the previous note whenever it’s released from moderation. Let me know if you’re on Spotify. Also what types of podcasts do you listen to?
Oh no, it’s always nice to receive your notes. Guess the boost of energy has also got you doing lots!;)
I think it’s good to find a routine that works for you and stick to it. I joined a local gym around mid-quarantine, as it forced me to get moving in the mornings and get my blood flowing – so to speak. Truth is, I love running, but just this week I decided to table it for a few months to see if it helps my body to heal. So hard though. Went for a walk on a trail, and everyone was jogging and cycling by ..and I looked at them so enviously! Haha
Totally understand about taking a break from work. I had done that too, but my bills started to mount, and being single- it’s not like I have anyone to financially lean on. But working from home because of quarantine makes things more manageable. I’m not a library person either, but go ham for book stores.
No breakthroughs just yet, but I’m making little changes; like trying to meditate at least once a day, so hope to see a glimmer of improvement soon. A few weeks ago I was in a much better space tbh.
Oh cool, so we’re about the same age. I had thought you were like a teenager haha.
I agree its terrible not being able to go at full capacity and just do the things you want to do that is one of the things that is so bad about this disorder because I used to be involved in lots of different activities myself but now do very little since the physical symptoms of my
anxiety have been amped up due to not sleeping deeply enough,one of the most difficult
things I’m finding is that sleep drive is so extremely hard for me to build even though I’ve
been faithfully following all of the recommended advice some times I do get the sleepiness
feeling but that is few and far between it feels as though my sleep system is non existent.Totally understand about not being able to take time off from work most people aren’t able to just do that and focus on getting better for me though I feel like what choice do I
have with anxiety disorder and now not being able to sleep deeply I literally have zero
energy anymore.Even though I said previously that things are getting better and which they are to a degree
the fact is I’m still not sleeping deeply just have more of understanding of how I should approach this where as before I was really lost,you say that a few weeks ago you were in a better space do you mean your outlook on this situation or did you mean the actual sleep
you were getting because maybe something you were doing back then was helping and
now you dropped that thing just a thought.Now I have a sleep window of 5 hours from 3:00 am to 8:00 am and get up immediately when the alarm goes off and am definitely tired but about 3 hours later that tiredness has faded and I just never seem to get there again and get the same shallow sleep at night so lately I’ve been on Martin’s youtube channel and he addressed my exacts concerns that if you’re implementing all these steps and still not feeling sleepy then it could be that even sitting up in bed could be hurting the sleep drive and that activity that engages the mind is
a key component into getting to that point of developing sufficient sleep drive and its very strange because I’ve found the times at the library when reading afterwards the feeling of tiredness is more likely for me than if I skipped going to the library and decided to do something else like run errands and the only difference I can see is that my mind was
engaged in the reading so that is a clue for sure.If you discover anything breakthrough wise let me know and I hope you start making some
progress.Happy Thanksgiving Jess! In a better space meaning that my sleep quality was a bit better. And good question, but I cannot trace it back to any one thing I was doing. I was indeed using a loose sleep window – I’d say 6-6.5 hours, getting up at a fixed time. I would take a short walk in the late afternoon, watch TV at night, and jump into bed when I felt too fatigued to continue. The other thing that I was doing back then is keeping a sleep dairy.
You say you get into bed at 3am. How do you even do that. You must have an iron-clad will. I run out of things to engage my body and mind by 10pm. What time do you get on your couch?
I hear your point on engaging the mind. As I’m working remotely, I’d say there’s an element of that for me during the day- less so at night. I have tried reading in the evening, but more often than not, my eyes feel fatigued, and mindless TV seems like the best vice – or even sitting in the dark.
So no tips just yet, but I too have been following many of the guidelines, apart from stimulus control and using a super strict window. I will adopt a tighter window once my body feels stronger.
Additionally, I would love to continue our communication, and share tips and motivate each other – but I’m quite private and highly desire to get off this forum. You can always reach me at shonellhindsatx.
x stands for ya hoo. I did it this way as I don’t want my note to get censored. Hope you figured it out lol
Totally understand about wanting to get off of the forum its counter productive to getting better because of the constant reminder and obsessive nature of this problem so I agree that
its good to give this a break and to try and keep your mind off of sleep and trying to solve it.Lately that’s what I’ve been implementing is not making how much sleep I get an issue so it doesn’t stick and I notice a difference not huge but definitely an improvement and overall
stress levels reduced it will take some time though for the desired result to take place.Also thanks for the contact info I will most likely check up once in a while to see if any progress has been made so thanks for that and hope you recover.
Oh, but I never read thru the other posts on this forum. Whenever I visit this site it’s only to respond to this thread. But you are indeed correct about taking a break from that sort of stimuli.
If you do have a chance to read this, can you tell me again how you broke thru the non-sleep phase? About a month ago, as shared I was getting light sleep. It was superficial but i was giving me some form of energy. Without warning, the light sleep went away. I thought, oh well, if I continue to do the same things, the stupid light sleep would at least return. It hasn’t.
My sleep window is 11:30 to 5am. I try to maintain it as much as possible. I also try to maintain some thread of optimism thru this experience, but the optimism is really starting to wilt.
Can you share a bit on your level of activity within the day? You talked about getting outdoors. Do you spend most of the day outside the house? Also, how much in advance of bed do you turn off the TV and switch to podcast? Do you feel sleepy now when you get into bed?
I turn off my TV at least an hour before bed, and listen to something. An hour later, I don’t feel sleepy but I may experience a slight head nod or may yawn. It’s not to where I cannot keep my eyes open though- not anywhere close. Though I do feel tired from the build-up of lack of sleep. I jump into bed then, and the stupid cycle repeats itself.
I gained enough sleep drive to enter into delta sleep by literally going days and days with
no sleep just laying in bed at night totally awake and frustrated until the sun came up and then I would complain all day about this and during this time my physical symptoms from
not sleeping were pretty extreme I remember having a very very tight chest and feeling so
bad but the thing was that at the time I wasn’t napping at all so I had in fact built up lots
of sleep drive unintentionally and then I read that napping can actually help to fall asleep at night so I started that and it was easy to get some nice rest or some times actually sleep
and this eventually led to me getting sleepy not tired 2 to 3 hours before my bed time and
at that point I knew that sleep was gonna happen.Also I would mention that all the frustration and anger over this I let go and just had the
attitude that there’s nothing that can be done by thinking obsessively about this and I
know its not as easy as just saying I’m not gonna think about this anymore because there’s
an awareness of this problem that follows us all throughout the day that keeps this in the
fore front of the mind,so trying to let go as much as possible is essential because worrying
creates more internal tension.Yesterday I did a nap and wasn’t all that tired and ended up spending 3 hours instead of
the hour I was supposed to be there and woke up wide awake for the whole night so when
2:30 am rolled around and wasn’t tired I just said well may as well stay up and do some
thing and that’s what I did ended up going to bed at 4:30 am woke up at 9:00 am this morning and feel tired so that was the right thing to do despite as crazy as it sounds,going
to bed when you’re tired is important.In the morning I usually spend 4 hours inside doing chores and then go out around
noon and either grocery shop,library or work in the yard then around 3 to 5 take a nap
but now I’m thinking only to do that if I’m tired enough and only for an hour then get up study for a course I’m going for and then either watch a movie or listen to an mp3 until
I’m tired enough to sleep which hasn’t been working all that well and its simply sleep drive that’s all it could possibly be our bodies and minds have a ridiculous resilience to sleep
debt so its tough and the worry creates a chemical barrier to sleep so being relaxed
physically and mentally is so important.I’ve actually gotten very sleepy while watching tv at night the times I’ve beaten this I would start nodding off and then know that hey in an hour or so I’m gonna shut this off and go
in the room so again I just this its sleep drive no matter what and all the routine it self could be also making this all stick,I wouldn’t recommend sitting in front of a monitor all an hour before bed but at the same time being rigid and tied to the clock is also not helpful so if you’re wide awake at the beginning of your sleep window its probably point less to go to
bed may as well build stay up and build the sleep drive but try and always get up at the
same time no matter what.In the end the goal needs to be to build sleep drive any way you can.
Sorry about the sloppy sentence structure I trying to fix it and actually made it worse and
they only let me edit it once usually I’m given 3 chances.Haha, no worries about the sentence structure, I understood everything. Your note also makes me feel hopeful. Really good to hear of your progress. I’ll give all your advice a go, and hope I can see some progress too.
I really needed a bit of encouragement, as these days things have really felt so futile. Which is another reason my responses slowed, as I didn’t feel I had anything positive to report.
What course are you studying for, if you don’t mind me asking? And how is it that you’re working in your yard. Is it not yet cold where you are? Things are freezing here!
And you’re so right. In reflecting on things, I have been too afraid to break the rules. Trying not to watch TV at night, getting into bed when my sleep window arrives out of concern of how I’ll be the next day. I’m so brave in so many aspects, but never had the courage to pull an all nighter. I tried never to lie awake in bed out of concern of forming a negative association with the bed. If I didn’t try so hard to adhere to all the rules, this whole experience may have been less of a struggle.
Sorry for not responding in a while its been taking its toll on me lately and I’m finding it difficult to stick with the sleep schedule when I’m literally getting no results so have been
sleeping in lately which isn’t good.I find the days when doing that sleeping past my wake up time by 2 to 3 hours just
because I’ve so damned exhausted results in having a aching head for the first half of the
day its bad so I need to get on the schedule and now there’s been a session booked with my counselor which is something I should have done a long time ago but I thought that this is something I should been able to get past on my own obviously I was wrong.Also I was reading this book about insomnia that was great and touched upon the
shallow sleep and everything we’ve been discussing on here problem is I can’t remember the name of it because it was the first time I read it in the library but there is a chapter in it about how thinking about sleep will prolong insomnia and it was the best stuff I’ve found yet in
any sleep book so I’m gonna get the name and post it in this thread so you can check it out
if you feel like it just hearing what they say in it could restore motivation.
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