[jaybird]

Hi all, my biggest sleep issue is high hyperarousal and never feeling sleepy. My symptoms are elevated heart rate since I started suffering from insomnia, feel my heart pounding when I lay down in bed, hypnic jerks and adrenaline rushes. Even if I get out of bed because I am not sleeping, the symptoms persist when I am sitting and trying to relax. It’s like my body is wired against sleep. I would like to do CBT-I, I tried my first night of sleep restriction last night with a window of 1:00am-6:30am and I never went to sleep, just a lot of back and forth from my bed to the living room. I feel wired today and even managed to go on a run this morning, about to do another workout. Really trying to tire myself out. I try to reframe my thoughts and just be accepting while I am laying there like “oh there’s a jerk” “that was just a surge” but I’m not getting sleep unless I take a pill, and that’s not even reliable.
I just feel I have an immense level of hyperarousal and not sure if CBTI is enough to combat it.

[Jess84]

Same here my window is the same timing and I notice that I’m only able to sleep the next at like
noon and it can’t be for no longer than an hour and I don’t actually go into a deep sleep just get
close to deep sleep I think that when I finally reach that deep sleep during the mid day nap I will
be able to pull it off at night because at bedtime I literally am in a light sleep for the entire night
does this also happen to you.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by Jess84.

[jaybird]

Yes I am still coming off of sleep medication and sleep pretty lightly during the second half of the night. I still haven’t felt sleepy yet.

[Recovery]

Im currently in a similar position. on a pill and been doing srt for 7 weeks now. I still have not gotten that sleepiness feeling back but the arousal level has gone down. I need to be able to get my sleep quality and duration up before i will start weaning off the pills. It is challenging but i tell myself what other options do i really have. It is a journey for sure. Im have been frustrated at this process throughout. Gains have been slow and minimal but it has been better when i was in my major storm of insomnia. You are not alone. I need to stay optimistic myself. Lets share and beat this together.

[jaybird]

Thanks for sharing Recovery. Props to you for making it so far in this journey.
Having a hard day today, last night the meds didn’t really work so it’s one of those “didn’t know whether I was awake or asleep” kind of nights.
It’s encouraging to hear the arousal has gone down for you. Is this a result of the cognitive techniques and stimulus control?
Sorry for all the questions. If you don’t get that sleepiness feeling, how do you know when to go to bed?
I am in a pattern of taking meds (Seroquel) and then getting into bed, and try to be mindful/calm my thoughts until the med kicks in. Sometimes I get solid sleep for 3 hours, wake up to use the bathroom then fall asleep for another 2-3 hours. But then I have nights like last night where I take the med, lay down, try mindfulness, and then end up in this state of light sleep where I don’t know if I’m sleeping, dreaming or just thinking a lot, for hours. If I get up on those nights for stimulus control, then I won’t get back to sleep, just be up till the end of my window.

[Recovery]

It has been a hard journey and i’m still working through it myself. I really don’t have a lot of answers myself. There were a few nights that I almost felt asleep on the coach but it was not time yet for my bedtime and by the time i got into me I would not feel sleepy. I honestly try to just remind myself in bed what martin said that “Sleep drives will always win”. I don’t really follow much sleep hygene i just try to do right i normally do before i head into bed prior to all this. When i do get better i want to being doing what i usually do before bed. Right now i take trazadone just right before i go to bed and i usually fall asleep within 20 mins. I think that Im actually falling asleep before the meds kick in. Im still unconfident to wean off of it. When you wake up and able to fall back asleep i guess what ever that allows you to fall back should be your strategy. When i wake up i have trouble going back to sleep. I toss and turn hoping to fall back asleep till my wakeup time and i get a surge of adrenaline in my body. I’m currently working on that myself. I am also currently learning to accept the good night and the bad night. Especially the bad nights because they are so defeating. Acceptance is really the key but is so hard. Like i said i have been doing srt for 7 weeks. Results have been mixed. I am still looking for that breakthrough. I really don’t have any other choices so i have to stick with it. Just remember that you are not alone. Hope you will be able to figure something out. Lets beat this together. Believe. We will get better!

[jaybird]

Thanks for your feedback. I had a sleepless night last night so this was really encouraging to see. I am trying to accept it. I try to have the thought in my head that I am just laying down to rest, not to sleep.
I am just discouraged at my apparent lack of sleep drive. I miss that drowsy feeling.
The fact that the medication didn’t help me sleep at all last night shows me that I may as well get off them in the near future but I definitely have to talk to my doctor before doing so.
I think I need to learn more about the cognitive part of CBT-I from different sources so I can better change my mindset around bedtime. I have recently started a free online mindfulness to help with the emptying of the mind since my brain races automatically about random crap all night.

[cwalters24]

I am doing CBT-I and find that within a week of sleep restriction my sleep drive is so strong that I can fall asleep over powering the hyper arousal and strong breathing, heartbeat. BUT it is important for this that when you are not sleepy- don’t be in bed. I feel like you need to do both. If you toss and turn more than 20 minutes you need to get out of bed a Do something relaxing. Otherwise you associate bed with anxiety. I personally still have trouble with night awakenings, but it has improved sleep onset IF you get out of bed when tossing and turning.
Good luck to all of us!

[niccynicole]

I do the same exact thing. It’s super frustrating. I also take prescription medication, it seems to be the only thing that will stop the racing heartbeat and hypnic jerks. Sending hope!

[jaybird]

Thank you cwalters24 for the encouragement and sharing your experience. It’s easy to feel alone in this especially when the whole family is asleep and I am still up waiting for my bedtime. I have never been more aware of my heartbeat in my life. I did feel sleepy last night for a minute but then I took a shower and the feeling went away.
Hi niccynicole, I didn’t know there was medication that can help with those symptoms. I really want to get off of seroquel for sleep, as I don’t think it’s healthy. I have just been trying to relax more out of bed. When I get in bed I try not to push for sleep too hard, since paradoxical intention is supposed to help in this case. Thanks for sharing what you are going through.

[Martin Reed]

This has become such a helpful and supportive thread — thank you to everyone who is contributing!

It can take time and consistency for a new sleep window to lead to noticeable and consistent improvements in sleep — and it’s certainly not unusual for sleep to temporarily get worse in the short-term as you adjust to the new schedule.

So, I would encourage you to continue moving forward! I have worked with others who have described their hyperarousal in a similar way to you and have got their sleep back on track, so I have no doubt you can, too!

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[jaybird]

Thank you for the response Martin. You made a good point to keep moving forward and working towards stability. Sleep has evened out for me since my last update, and the physical hyperarousal is not really an issue anymore.
Sorry for the late update all, I started school and it’s kept me very occupied. I am still taking Seroquel for sleep but weaning down slowly. I had one night where dozed off before I took the Seroquel so that was very promising.
I am sleeping for about 5.5-6 hours a night, with maybe one awakening lasting 20 minutes or so. For a couple weeks sleep was easier to come by, it was a struggle to stay up until midnight (my previous bed time) and I slept solidly for 6 hours a night.
Unfortunately mental health issues have reared it’s ugly head again this past and I am back to racing thoughts that disrupt sleep. My mind races constantly, not about anything necessarily negative, just a constant narrative. I am waking up about an hour too early as well. So instead of 11:40-6, I’m sleeping about 11:40-5. It’s terrible as I don’t want to be up at 5AM, it’s dark and cold at that time, and I could use the extra hour.
Any advice on this issue? I could try to adjust the bedtime later again to see if that would help, it’s just that I am already dozing off before my 11:40 bed time as is.
Maybe adjust the bed time earlier to 10-something so at least I’ll still be getting 6 hours, even if I am up earlier than I want to be? Any feedback is welcome and please update me on how you all have been.

[Chee2308]

Hey Jaybird, it’s good to hear you are sleeping soundly again. It shows cbt-i really works! Sleep drive is an extremely powerful tool in enabling sleep, more powerful than any sleep meds out there. In regards to your earlier wakening, I would probably attribute that to a lowered sleep drive as you have been sleeping so well, the body feels there’s no need to go on sleeping beyond what it feels is more than adequate rest already. How do you feel when u wake at the earlier time? Do you feel rested? Have u been taking naps during thebdaytime? I would try to cut out all sleep outside the sleep window or u can do more exercise to tire yourself out and hopefully make u sleep that extra hour. Or u can reprogram the body to fall asleep again in the sleep window u allow it, but that means u have to redo the srt all over again and let sleep drive do the job. If u are wishing to “force” the body to wake at a certain time or ask it to sleep beyond what it feels is adequate rest, I think that’s not gonna work. As much as u cant control falling sleep, u cannot control what time u wake up naturally also.

[jaybird]

Thank you for the reply Chee Hiung Yong. You make some great points. To answer your questions:
I feel fatigued when I wake up at 5. It’s hard for me to get enough energy to start going until about 8AM, and I don’t really feel awake until about 10 or 11. I get out of bed about 5:30 when it’s clear I am not going to fall back asleep.
I don’t take naps, I don’t seem able to fall asleep during the day.
Exercise is something I try to do regularly, 4-5 days week for 30+ minutes. I can try to be more consistent.
I will try restarting SRT again, I can do reading for school or study to stay up late and then find a low-stimulation activity to do an hour before the start of sleep window to wind down. It is a good time in my life for that because I am not working and only have school one day a week. It will be hard to go through that initial exhaustion again!

[Recovery]

Hey jaybird. This is exactly whats going on with me at the moment. I cannot sleep till
my wake up time. Always up an hr before i want to wake up. Want to go back to sleep but never can. For some
reason i can’t seem to increase my sleep duration with sleep restriction. Hopefully we can figure something out.

[Author]

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