[R.E.M]

It’s currently 3am where I am, this is my bad night. For the last week I’ve been on a bad pattern where I’ll have one good night where I sleep like a log (because of the sleep deprivation of not sleeping the previous night) then the next night, I’ll get into bed and not feel sleepy at all. I’m trying to be calm about it and not let the sleepless nights make me panic but how can I break the cycle? Does anyone have experience of this?

I’m thinking of starting sleep restriction again, using a 6 hour sleep window to nip it in the bud. Usually I have good nights for 2 weeks straight then a small setback…but not this…this can’t be good for my body…

[Scott]

Hi REM,

Welcome to the forum! If you go to bed and are not sleepy, it usually means that your sleep drive isn’t sufficient to generate sleep and you should continue to remain out of bed until you are sleepy. What time do you usually go to bed at night and when do you get out of bed to start your day in the morning? Do you get out of bed in the morning at a consistent time, even on the weekends?

You mentioned that you’re thinking of implementing sleep restriction *again* – how long ago were you using CBT-I techniques and how long did you try them?

Scott J

—

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[R.E.M]

Hi Scott. Thanks for your reply.

My bed time shifted quite a bit when I moved, so I used to go bed around 1, but now I was going bed at 11:30/12:00 these past two weeks and waking up at 8:00 – 8:30, generally sleeping through the whole night but had issues waking up before my alarm. Yes I’ve mostly been getting up at 8 (maybe the most I get up is 9:30) but I’m going to keep in consistent now.

My history with CBTI is interesting. I did an online course for (6?) weeks which worked to an extent but I wasn’t doing stimulus control nor waking up at my set time or not taking naps. I was still having one bad night a week which frustrated me but I managed to sleep 6 hours per day.

What really annoyed me was the lack of support and less concentration on the thoughts side which was what was driving insomnia for me. I felt like I also didn’t have any support to deal with bad nights, so those were still tripping me up and causing fear.

So during Christmas break, I put my course on hold and haven’t really been back.
Then I had a big set back and introduced a casual sleep window (1:30 – 8, I think) which helped as well as ACT/DARE methods. That helped get me through but every two weeks I was still having a bad night and early morning awakening.

So it’s just been a really frustrating time. I think I need to stick with it longer but CBT-i is hard without proper support. I think I just keep going in circles. I would be happy if I had a few months off from this insomnia thing, having a bad night once a week/two weeks never used to happen to me.

Sorry for the rant, it’s just been a long 6 months of this despite being a really good sleeper before

[Scott]

REM,

It sounds like you had some previous success with CBT-I, managing 6 hours of sleep, while casually implementing the techniques so that should give you some reassurance that you can sleep and that your efforts really paid off. How did you feel the next day after achieving 6 hours of sleep and did you go on about your day normally? It’s not uncommon to have an occasional poor night of sleep but the best way to react to a few difficult nights is not to react since our reactions are often unhelpful and can perpetuate the issue.

As you know, consistently implementing the CBT-I techniques and being patient with the process is critical in overcoming your sleep issues. It’s like going to the gym – short term pain for long term gain, right? Was the lack of support the reason you didn’t fully commit to the CBT-I techniques previously or was it attributed to something else?

When you start to worry about sleep, what is going through your mind and how do you try to manage those thoughts?

Scott J

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[R.E.M]

Hi Scott

I felt really happy over getting 6 hours. I felt great! But I feel like occasionally shouldn’t be weekly/fortnightly and that wasn’t normal for me in the past. But maybe I need to accept I may never get back to sleeping how I was and stop comparing?

Yes it was the lack of support on the thoughts I was having and felt the CBT side was mostly ignored. And I think my thoughts about sleep perpetuates the insomnia. I also just found it stressful and being sleep deprived and not knowing when my window would increase made me frustrated.

I try self soothe by writing positive/comforting thoughts in a diary and tell myself I’ll be okay no matter what. I think I just find the sleepless nights really lonely and it almost makes me feel ill to see the sun rise knowing I haven’t slept at all.

[Scott]

REM –

If you experience a tough night of sleep, don’t beat yourself up. Usually, the best way to react to a poor night of sleep is not to react since our reactions can perpetuate the sleep disruption.

Hopefully you’ve been reviewing the resources on this website if you decide to give CBT-I another attempt. Also, there are others on this forum with similar situations as yourself that can provide additional insights and support along the way. CBT-I techniques can be really helpful because they tackle the thoughts and behaviors that perpetuate sleep disruption but your commitment to these techniques could determine how soon you begin to see positive results in your sleep. Most people, understandingly, want instant gratification in everything – weight loss, fitness, etc but patience and commitment to the program are key to your success.

Jotting down your concerns during the day and having a “so what” attitude towards your thoughts can help reduce the nighttime arousal. Building a strong sleep drive during the day by implementing a sleep window can also help overpower your anxious thoughts at bedtime.

Have you started sleep restriction again? If so, what time do you go to bed and wake in the morning to start your day?

Hope that helps,
Scott J

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[anmareta]

Hi Rem,

You are not alone one this. I struggle as well with sleepless nights. It has been 4 days since staring he suggestions from the free online course and I feel quite demotivated tonight. It went really well the first two nights, I slept 6 hours each night. However, the last two nights have been rough. One I slept 2 hours and tonight which I have not slept.
My mind goes bunckers thinking how is this possible? – I have enough sleep drive, I did not sleep well the night before. Then, I tell myself I guess my body is not sleepy enough yet. My body will give me the sleep I need when I need it. It’s like I am learning to trust my body. I find it challenging specially with setbacks, but trying to stay committed and open.
I think my arousal is still not low and keeps me awake, but trying to let go of that and stay open to the other nights.
It is challenging but helps me to see the stories on YouTube from others who have done it and also at times had 2 nights in a row of sleepless nights.
I have been on medication for 2 years, so the 2 nights of sleepless nights is again new to me and scary, but I think is a part of ACT as well for me to accept my wakefulness and the pains that come with it. This too shall pass. I want to fight the wakefulness because is painful but is that what I am trying to practice tonight kind of like let it be. I am awake, my body is not sleepy enough fine. Sleep will come at some point
Not sure if this helps, I don’t even know if this is a good approach. Kind of trying here and there, but you are not alone in this.

[turtlestamp]

Hey @R.E.M @anmareta, neither of you are alone in this 🙂

In fact I similarly go through a similar pattern, it’s a bit different i.e. a few decent nights of 5 to 6 hours followed by a sleepless night, usually followed by a few more poor nights (i.e. a few hours) rinse repeat.

I do think ACT can play a big role in helping mood, but I have to admit the nights of so sleep, the days after are really hard with increased anxiety, still trying my best to cope and find techniques on how to handle it, I know what I should do, which is nothing :), but it’s easier said then done.

Best of luck to all !

[anmareta]

Thanks, Turtlestamp! Yeah, it’s tough, so ACT really helps with staying in the now at night and during the day when facing the daily hassles of life. I also think of moms who are taking care of their babies at night and need to be alert the whole day. It makes me feel trusting that I can handle the day. I know a lot of moms at the moment with newborns and I am always amazed by how much they have and managed to do with little sleep.
Also, I think, I can always go back to medication, so now I am giving myself a chance to trust that my body will give me the sleep I need and my body can sleep naturally as I let go of my false beliefs. It’s a bit of a mantra at the moment.
How long have you been trying the program? Are you doing the free online course?

Let’s hang in there! We got this! If you feel like venting, feel free to message!

[turtlestamp]

Thanks @anmareta ! I do find venting (or just sharing) actually helps a lot, particularly on the hard days 🙂 Really good point about Moms as well, they’re just amazing.

I’ve only been going through this for about 1 month now, so I can only imagine what it’s like for folks who’ve been dealing with it longer term. I’ve been trying a mixture of ACT/CBT for about a week now, though there are some contradictory elements between the two (e.g. stimulus control i.e. staying in bed vs getting out). I know what you mean about medicine as well, though I don’t find Trazodone does a whole lot for sleep but it does help with anxiety to a certain extent.

I actually started the online course a while back 🙂 So I finished it but I wasn’t really committed until more recently.

[R.E.M]

Hi everyone, I’m glad my thread has given people a little space to vent. Would be so good if we had a CBT-I support thread on this forum, because going through this alone can be hard (I found it hard even with an online course!) I’ve been dealing with issue for 6 months now but it’s taught me a lot…

@scotttj i’m going to bed at 1:30 and getting up at 8:00 atm, i am seeing some improvements but touch wood. Getting out of bed and reading for 10/20 minutes really helped a lot, and i managed to some sleep a few nights ago. Slept like a baby yesterday, bit tired today but we move forward. Today can still be a good day 🙂

I think to make the wakefulness less lonely, i like to read, listen to a podcast or get out of bed and try again in 20 minutes. sometimes the body just needs a reset. I think ACT is really useful but in one of podcasts, they called it an ‘advanced technique’ it does take a lot to stay in bed and accept your wakefulness. I also think meditation is really great, not just for sleep but it helps you learn how to concentrate on your breathing. That’s how i get to bed on my goodnights.

We will eventually all get through this, everything will pass. Just remember to be kind and patient with yourself, rome wasn’t built in a day. Sometimes there will be painful, hard moments, but we’ll get through it. And i always like to remind myself, if you’re going through a setback, it means you’re about to make a breakthrough. Hope you’re all doing well.

[anmareta]

Awww I love all these loving messages!! Indeed let’s support each other here. Alone can be though indeed.
I have had struggle with sleepless nights for 2 years. On and off medication (quetiapine 6mg) it does the job but leaves me a bit zombie the next day.
Indeed, there are some parts where ACT and CBT-i are kind of crossing each other, but in other ways can complement each other.
I definitely prefer getting out of bed too, but maybe it will change at some point.
I like reading too, podcasts, writing, listening to music, meditating to relax not necessarily sleep but just rest. At times when I have sleepless nights, I just do like 3 hours of visualization meditation and that helps me to feel kind of refreshed. Yoga nidra for sleep is also really nice!
I can get a bit depressed and anxious during the day and there I need motivation and staying in the present moment.

I also had the same, finished the course a while back and being more committed now.
Let’s see how it goes ??

[turtlestamp]

I really do appreciate all these messages I find them really helpful. Great idea @R.E.M in regards to a CBT-I support thread, I guess that’s what this entire forum is though 🙂 But I agree it’s really nice to be going through this all with others. Also, R.E.M, your sleep window is identical to mine 🙂 Though I’m trying to make it earlier.

Thanks for the tips @ammareta in regards to yoga nidra I’ll look into that. Like you I’m actually at my worst (feeling depressed and anxious) on the mornings after a bad night sleep (not so much during the night it self as I can stay somewhat calm now).

In terms of ACTi + CBTi, I feel if I can lay in bed, calm, relaxed, also tired (i.e. potential for sleep) I’ll stay in bed now, but if I feel anxious at all or “awake” I leave in hopes of a reset.

[Manfred]

Sleep anxiety is my problem for years. I often obsess about it during the day. I don’t know what to do about it – should I try meds? I have read a lot about sleep, but knowledge is not my problem. It feels like my anxiety is engrained. It is tough.

[anmareta]

Indeed, the day can be tough, like I just change in personality with no sleep, but for now, just trying to take some distance and observe myself. Like saying to myself, now I am anxious, now I am down, now I feel like being on the couch the whole day. Ok, the feeling can be there and I will take that feeling for a walk and then see how it changes. I am 3 weeks off medication and using this technique has been so much helpful than doing it without them. Also, this support to write here helps!

@Mantred. I also have sleep anxiety. I think that’s what triggers the whole cycle of insomnia for me. Following the free online course by Martin helped and also I downloaded the app, sleep school app. You can find it at the play store. It also helps. This app also has a book, the sleep book by Guy Meadows. I have it on my kindle and they are both great support. I have been managing with them and without medication for the moment. The sleep anxiety is not completely gone, but it feels great to have support on how to handle it. I have medication that I can take if the sleepless now become too much, but I take it more incidentally now, not every day.

[Author]

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