[turtlestamp]

Hey @Manfred. Because links are generally moderated for a while let’s try this:

facebook dot com /groups /sleepschoolcommunity
-Request to join that community, lots of replays are there.

[Manfred]

Thank u, will try.

[anmareta]

@turtlestamp the app is quite good! It is like someone is working with you everyday. I feel like I am supported at all times in the process. Plus the Facebook community and this. It totally helps me with the frustration and anxiety. My sleep window is also small and I decided to go off meds for at least a month. Knowing that I am giving myself a month feels like it won’t be forever. But actually it has been a great decision for now. I felt like I would not be able to do it, I grew too attached to them, but it’s been three weeks now and I don’t want to go back, my sleep confidence has grown but also is not terms of hours slept but that I can handle life with w.e. Hours I get from sleep. – Live is a really important concept for me from ACT. That confidence has grown for me.

[turtlestamp]

@anmareta I’m sold 🙂 I’ll get the app. We can really use all the help that’s out there.

I like your idea actually, maybe I can apply it to myself on a shorter time frame i.e. for the next 5 days I won’t use any medicine (trazadone or anything over the counter) no matter the situation.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by turtlestamp.

[anmareta]

Also with the app you have a week free trial, so if you dont find it useful you can unsubscribe

[anmareta]

Yes! I said to myself, I will give myself the gift to try this. I think I need to treat myself with lots of love and kindness in this process, so I try to frame things in a loving way and then I noticed I can move forward to things that are difficult more easily. In the end is really a gift even though it was tough to be off meds at the beginning (also I Neede to account for a withdrawal part from them for the first week), now I feel the fruits of it. I trust myself more!

[Manfred]

How was this webinar on sleep anxiety?

[turtlestamp]

@manfred, not too bad, pretty much similar to content in the sleep book.

Has anyone been through 3/4/5 days with just a few hours each (i.e. 1 to 2 hours) ? I’m hoping at some point my body will just give in and sleep.

[anmareta]

@turtlestamp I have not experience that but could be a question for others in other groups. Also maybe Scott has a take on it or Martin..? The know more ppl with insomnia and their patterns

[Scott]

Splendid conversation here, folks!

@turtlestamp – personally, I experienced 8 hrs cumulative sleep for 4 straight days when I had insomnia, so I can relate. It was probably the worst time during my entire 10-month insomnia experience but sleep wins in the end. I remember making coffee one morning and thinking, “is something wrong with me”, “am I losing my mind” and other negative thoughts towards my sleep issue during that 4-day stretch. It was an emotional drain. It’s not uncommon to hear similar experiences on this forum but how people handle the situation will vary from person-to-person and with different outcomes.

Just as most on this forum, I tried everything on the Internet without long term success, until I found and committed to CBT-I techniques. In my experience, addressing thoughts AND behaviors proves to be the most effective way to improve sleep but, again, it’s different for everyone. Some are able to improve their sleep issue by focusing on behavioral changes and others who explore only the cognitive side have shown improvement too.

If you’re currently exploring CBT-I, I’d suggest two things: 1) be 100% committed to the techniques and 2) have patience with results. Your commitment to the evidence-based techniques could determine how soon you begin to see positive results in your sleep. Understandably so, people want instant gratification in everything – weight loss, fitness, etc but having realistic timeframes for resolution is important. Remember, your insomnia has been with you for a while (months, years) so having it resolved in a day or two, even a week, probably isn’t realistic.

I hope that helps,
Scott J

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[turtlestamp]

@scottctj that was immensely helpful and reassuring, thank you so much !

I feel I’m getting a lot closer on the mental/emotional side … but have small setbacks … for example yesterday I’ll feel what’s arguably a minor physical ache (pressure in eye), and worried that I needed to sleep well that night for that to go away … I often find the anxiety is what causes the most damage (even physically).

I think you’re also spot on about the commitment to cbt-i, I think I’m trying a hybrid now and I don’t think that’s working, to be clear (in case it helps others) the mindful element of act-i (and how to approach thoughts) is great and at least personally I think that works best for me, but, in terms of the physical side of things i.e. when to go to bed and stay in bed, that’s where I’m sitting on the fence. For example going to bed early (10am) because I think I feel tired, when in fact it’s clear I’m not, so I stay awake until 3/4 am (fairly clam), then when I start to watch something (do something to actually distract myself) I actually get tired so … : ) … commitment needed ! …

Thanks again !

[anmareta]

Thanks Scott for sharing your experience! Gives lots of hope 🙂

@turtlestamp also great to ask and heer from you and how you are handling it!

[Manfred]

Had a a very rough night. My sleep anxiety is sooo high. It is really frustrating: I have tried and learned so much, but it is as if my mind wants to “test” me. They say anxiety is a protector, mine feels way more like a torturer.

Since last Monday, I have restricted my sleep window to 5,5 h. Worked well for 5 days, last days was very bad. I think I will also need to implement stimulus control.

I have some questions about SC: I know the theory behind and 1,5 y ago, it worked fine for me. But now, I fear that I will not be able to distract or enjoy mysalf while reading or watch a show. My anxiety won’t leave me (but of course come down – is this enough to expect?). But if my anxiety don’t leave me even if I get out of bed, how can I then ever return to bed this night? Or shall I not? But where does this lead to?

My deepest fear is existential: that my mind will “keep me form sleeping” and I will literally “kill” me in the end or at least destroy my life since I will get stuck, get depressed, loose everything aso. It is catastrophizing at its best. A mixture of anxiety, intrusive thoughts, OCD.

[turtlestamp]

Hey @Manfred, really sorry to hear about your night ! I’ll let others chime in who can definitely give you a more technical answer. Personally, I never had much success with SC, rather I tackled it a different way … namely befriending wakefulness i.e. I’m OK if I spend an entire night up, I know I can function on a day of no sleep, and in fact several days of a few hours of sleep.

So for me, this meant making that thing as enjoyable as possible, so I actually watch youtube in bed (yes that probably that violates many CBTi tenants : – ) … travel vlogs in particular). It works pretty well, I usually get tired within 30 min to an hour and attempt to sleep again. One thing though, I only do this if I’m “not sleeping”, but if I’m frustrated, I’ll leave the bed, and I never watch with the intent of it making me sleep.

I actually rarely have anxiety at night time (sometimes still a little frustration), most of my anxiety comes in the early evening time now, I find just sitting with it, accepting it, generally it passes after 5-20min. But I know this is easier said then done.

I also hate to suggest “sleep aids” or “sleep hygiene” but I’ve been doing something else recently which I find helps, so I mentioned youtube videos earlier but I only do this when I wake up after sleeping for say 30 min and no longer feel tired, so this isn’t very frequent. If I’m tired and trying to sleep, I’ll sometimes put podcasts on in the background at a low volume (particularly the “sleep with me” podcast, you can search it, there are hundreds of episodes, I’ll queue up several {which is hours worth} so there’s no end, and you’ll see it’s very monotone, to the point I barely remember what any of them are about ! ), I find it works really well for me, but I don’t listen to it to sleep, I just like to have background noise and find it relaxing. Often I fall asleep to it, sometimes when I wake it up again and I’m very tired I turn it off, or lower the volume even further. If you have racing thoughts this can help ground you a little I find. Now of course, its best not to ignore those thoughts though, so I suggest this very cautiously, because if you listen with the attitude of “this will make me sleep” I doubt it’ll work and likely cause more frustration.

btw I get those thoughts, I have/had them, but you know you can sleep at this point ? So it’s more the frustration that you cannot sleep every night ? I definitely get this !

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by turtlestamp.

[Manfred]

@turtlestamp: would u mind telling a bit more of “befriending wakefulness”. It is a core element of Daniel Erichsen’s concept (see youtube). But I struggle a lot with it. I know it is the way to go, but knowing, as we … know, is one thing… I cannot read or watch tv (either in bed or not) in the middle of the night and just leave my anxiety behind. It is constantly in my backmind. And therefore, I cannot enjoy such things.

@anmareta: if I understand correctly, u took a drug for over 2 years for sleeping and still have it if necessary. So does this mean, the drug really helped. What did it to? Sedation? Bringing down the anxiety? What about thoughts?

Thanks

Manfred

[Author]

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