[turtlestamp]

Hey @Manfred, right it’s a core element of ACTi in some form or another, even CBTi really. I know what you mean, it’s easy to say or read about, but a totally different story when you have the anxiety building up. I find it’s a really personal thing, and differs with everyone so there’s no magical answer out there. So I can just tell you my personal experience ,but it may not help or apply to you; I’m content with nights of no sleep, I’ve been through it for a while that I know that eventually I do fall asleep (the night after or even next), and I find my days are impacted of course but not overly so and I can function just fine. It wasn’t always like this, just 1 week ago no sleep led to huge anxiety, particularly at night, there wasn’t really a day it switched, it was a slower process.

In terms of medicine, I did take trazodone (stopped about a week ago now), I find it helps a little with anxiety, and sleep as well (but not a lot).

Hope that helps.

[Manfred]

Thank u very much!

[anmareta]

Hi @Turtlestamp, Happy you are doing better now! 🙂 It gives sooooo much hope!!!!

@Manfred, I can so relate to what you shared after having a rough night and anxiety kicking in with full-on power and thinking I am just going to die and my body is weird and does not know how to sleep and something is wrong with it. I can go on and on. My head goes 100 miles per hour. I can sayyy sooooooo much much about this. YOU ARE NOT ALONE! I have that too totally! I will never sleep again and it’s over. Why even try?

For two years, I took quetiapine between 6 and 25 mg. It is an antipsychotic and it helps with thoughts. It lowers the number of thoughts in my head and is also a sedative. Well, you can read on Wikipedia about it. This medication is usually used in low dosage to help people to sleep. It worked for me and I slept. It has its side effects though, such as a zombie state the next day, numbing my emotions, also many more that you can read about. It’s also a medication that I needed to take every day because my body took time to get used to it. It’s not something I can take just as needed. It took me like a couple of weeks to get used to it, and in those couple of weeks, it was a rollercoaster and I got worst actually. Felt super anxious, depressed, and some suicidal thoughts. But then it stabilizes and then I was a clock, went to sleep, and woke up at the same time. For a while, it was good because of my complicated relationship with fear and my scary thoughts. I just did not want to feel fear and be aware of my crazy scary thoughts, so being numb was great!
However, in the last few months, I am doing another kind of therapy and I want to learn to befriend my emotions and thoughts. Not reject them but see them as another part of myself that deserves love.
Now, the psychiatrist prescribed me promethazine, which is an anti-allergy pill and it also has a sedating effect. I can use this one when needed, so I do not need to take it every day. However, I have not used it so far, which is giving me sooooo much confidence! I am trusting my body. I do not sleep 8 hours, mostly 5 to 6. Some nights I sleep 2 to 3 hours, but that’s ok, I can manage life. I am really kind to myself even though there is a critical voice that says it’s all going wrong and I will die, there is also a loving voice!!! it’s not so loud yet, but the more I practice the more it will grow. I am sure! See here is again! I can’t believe it.

What helps me is the ACT-i and CBT-i and sharing with you guys and people that have recovered from insomnia.
I just spoke to someone today that recovered from insomnia and he had weeks on 2 hours of sleep. I was like whuuuuut??? howww??? He said, yes it was though, but he did not die. It was his journey to confront his fears and befriend them and that’s how I am seeing this journey for me as well. It’s not comfortable is tiring but is teaching me soooooo much!!!
Also, he shared something about soldiers that are in a war zone and on like a couple of hours of sleep and they do not die. It’s kind of extreme, but somehow it puts things into perspective to that voice that is screaming I cannot do this anymore. It’s very personal, also. To me, that helped.
Also, I write. I let my critical voice (anxiety) express itself nowadays and look at it from a distance. I got this idea from David Carbonell an anxiety coach. You can google him. He wrote the panic attack workbook and the worry trick. So many ideas to learn to befriend anxiety. For example, I wrote this the other day:

My mind is running 100 miles/hour
with a 100 catastrophes of how my life will turn out
that scares my inner child

She cries inside, she cries inside

My life is ending slipping away in my mind,
I am dying
I am destroyed
I am lying death in the middle of the road

She cries inside, she cries inside

My mind adrenalized and full of fear screams
I am dying I have all these diseases that are ending my life
stopping me from taking risks and living life
It keeps me paralyzed

She is numb inside, she is numb inside

It’s cold in here and lonely
I am shivering and phony
Telling the world I am ok
While hell broke lose and it’s all foggy

She is cold inside, she is cold inside

There is no stopping
Where is it the off button?
My mind has lost its focus

She is hot inside, she is hot inside

Give me pills, give me something
Temazepam, Quetiapine, lorazepam
How can I end this state of mind?

She is lost inside, she is lost inside

Breathing in, breathing out
Slowly in and slowly out
Let me hold your hand
While we come out

She is loved inside, she is loved inside

Will it come back mama?
It might, but I will hold your hand! <3
There is no pill, like the love of God!

It’s like exposure therapy and the more I face my fear the less scary it becomes. It’s very paradoxical and also is in baby steps. Do not try to do it all in one day. I have a lifetime to learn this. It has been a journey of years and who knows how many more years and that’s ok 🙂
I think I share lots and lots! Not sure if anything helps, take what helps and ignore the rest! heheh
Also, the sleep school has many meditations that help with being with fear instead of running away from it and in time it also lower anxiety.
It’s not a quick fix like meds, but it works in the long term, with of course many setbacks, but hey who is counting.

[Manfred]

@anmareta Wow, what a great post – and what great poetry!

One question: how exactly do you face this fear?

[anmareta]

@manfred thanks! In regards to your question, I use tons of modalities to learn to feel comfortable with certain emotions (e.g. fear, anger, sadness, etc) that I usually want to numb, run away from, avoid. Learn to feel comfortable with the unconfortable.
I had therapy that was one thing. My therapist gave me different exercises, such as first describing what thoughts and bodily sensations do I have when I am experiencing anxiety.
Examples of thoughts are the ones you mentioned and bodily sensations are rapid heartbeat, fainting sensation, chest tension, tensing muscles, etc. Then I had to observe those emotions while breathing in and out in the session and then I noticed that they changed. They do not stay the same. They come really strong, peak, and then drop. It can happen multiple times. Then I saw that yeah they were uncomfortable but not dangerous. For example, when I have bloating pain because I ate too much, I feel super uncomfortable, but I am not in danger. Slowly, my brain is not fighting it, but more relaxing into it.
The panic workbook and anxiety coach website explains some of those exercises and he has some youtube videos you can read on the self-help section. He also has some breathing exercises for it.
Meditation is kind of that too and the sleep school website explains that sensation specifically for fear of insomnia. There is a free trial for the app and you can see if the meditation for sleep anxiety series works for you. In the beginning, is super hard because I have been working my ass off to run away from those emotions, so it’s scary to face them at the beginning, so that’s why for me it was better to do therapy first to have someone guiding me next to me. However, you can ask anyone you feel safe to do the meditation with you that is a calm person.
As always practice makes perfect and when I feel fear now, I try to see it as like, ok this is my opportunity to practice, instead of fighting it, I try to welcome it. It is super hard and I had soooo many setbacks, but it gets better!
I also had something called psychosomatic therapy and in that one, I learned some visualizations to feel the fear. They are anchoring exercises. Google – act mindfully and you can see that they have free stuff. I like the anchoring exercise because it helps to show me that I can hold the fear and is not going to kill me. I have thoughts that say they will, but now I am feeling more at ease seeing that they are just thoughts. Scary thoughts indeed, but just thoughts not an actual fact. Also, after having them for so many years and seeing that indeed they did not kill me, I see them more for what they are thoughts. Like I can have the thought that my hair is pink and my thoughts can be screaming my hair is pink, but hey my hair remains black. So my mind can produce all kinds of thoughts and I can keep seeing them as thoughts.
Also, Netflix has some cool series on headspace-guided meditation. Those are also nice and easy to start practicing feeling ok with the feelings and thoughts that we all humans have.

The sleep book has some nice things that I read when I am feeling overwhelmed with my thoughts:
examples

Accepting insomnia requires being willing to sit with, lean into, make space or open up to the pain and suffering that you have been trying so desperately to control and avoid. By doing so, you’ll allow yourself to sleep naturally and move forward with your life.

Meadows, Dr. Guy. The Sleep Book: How to Sleep Well Every Night (p. 79). The Sleep School. Kindle Edition.

I will fail.
Fear of failure is one of the biggest reasons for struggling with sleeplessness. This can either be because you fear you will fail to cope the next day and the potential consequences of that, or you fear simply not being able to perform the act of sleeping like everyone else. The Sleep School’s Five-Week Programme paradoxically teaches you to be willing to fail at sleeping because it is only when you can accept wakefulness that you can sleep.
• It will hurt.
It goes without saying that if you don’t sleep, then you don’t feel particularly good the next day.
Excessive tiredness, aches and pains, and mood swings are all very common. In reality though, while uncomfortable, most sensations experienced through sleeplessness do not cause actual physical hurt, despite your mind telling you otherwise. Let go and be open to experiencing such discomfort rather than wasting your energy struggling with it.

Meadows, Dr. Guy. The Sleep Book: How to Sleep Well Every Night (p. 75). The Sleep School. Kindle Edition.

These are just some examples and they are really really hard. I do not even know how I have done so far, but that is to show that I CAN TRUST MY BODY. Even if there are some thoughts that think otherwise, the fact is my body can handle it and is getting better the more I give it a chance and I have patience.

I also have a spiritual side and that helps me too. I do some love and compassion meditation for holding the pain the next day when I did not have a good sleep. That helps me to be with the emotional mood swings and seeing that is ok to feel those. self-compassion dr Kristin Neff
has some good meditations I use.

Hope some of this helps!

[R.E.M]

Re-reading this thread gives me faith a bit, I’m currently going through a rough patch with my insomnia and I feel like the setbacks are getting more frequent. Still getting up at 8am and going to bed at 1:30am. Makes me wonder if I should make my window tighter but resisting the urge to change things as this just increases the ‘fight’ with insomnia. I hope by actually putting the effort to get out of bed (I’ve struggled with this all my life!) I’ll be rewarded eventually. I’ve only been doing SR for 2 weeks so maybe it’s too short to know? @Scottctj

I will keep going. Even though I feel like I’ve taken several steps back. At least sleepless nights make me panic less, so that’s an improvement, I used to be really scared of them. I just hope the frequency of them goes down a bit. Any words of encouragement are appreciated!

[Manfred]

I too struggle a lot. I just don’t manage to calm my anxiety. It is as I forget my “strategy” when going to bed. Then I ruminiate and be anxious during the day. All this gives me existential threats. I fear my anxiety, my anxious mind and what it could do to me.

My sleep window is 5,5 hours right now, since 8 days. But the arousal is too high. Perhaps one mistake I make is not going out of bed – will that starting tonight.

[R.E.M]

Hi @Manfred

I used to struggle with bad sleep anxiety too. What helped me is meditation before bed and concentrating on my breathing. I also started ignoring the sensations after a while and I found they went away.

Sounds easier than it is but don’t fear your anxiety. Your anxiety isn’t there to hurt you, intact there’s been many times it’s protected you. At this time, it’s just a mismanaged. Come at it with compassion, imagine it as a scared little child and comfort it. It doesn’t mean to hurt you either. Anxiety just doesn’t know how not to fear having a sleepless night. What anxiety tells you in your head are just thoughts– they’re not real or the truth about reality or what is going to happen. Just thoughts. I know the sensations that come after the thoughts make things seem so real but it’s just your reaction. Your anxious mind won’t hurt you and it doesn’t exist to. See it is as a friend.

Today I woke up from my little bit of sleep and actually wanted to hug my anxious self. I know she doesn’t mean to do this, keep me up all night fearing a sleepless night while causing it at the same time. She’s just trying to protect me.

Getting out of bed helps significantly @Manfred, if you’re sleeping anyway, why stay in bed? I’ve not mastered this myself and it’s probs the most hated bit of CBT-I but I’m getting better. Let’s keep trying our best, we’ll see results soon.

[Manfred]

@R.E.M thanks a lot – great post!

[Jaran]

I have been following this thread for several days, and I want to say to all of you who’ve put out some of your deepest thoughts and fears here, thank you! Such incredible insights and suggestions you all have!

A turning point for me, and I suspect many who suffer from insomnia, has been coming to grips with the deep anxiety surrounding sleep and the belief that “something is wrong with me”. This has be a decades-long thing for me. I truly believed that, while others might suffer from insomnia now and then, I was unique in the the severity and anxiety surrounding insomnia. It means a lot to hear your stories and suggestions.

I’ve been reading and learning a lot in the last 6 weeks or so, but I’ve not done much in the way of mediation or grounding exercises. @anmareta, do you remember the name of the Netflix series that you refer to?

Thanks everyone.

[turtlestamp]

Search for: Headspace Guide to Meditation

🙂

I echo your comment in regards to the insightfulness from everyone has been so immensely helpful ! No one is alone, even though it can feel like it at times, while everyone’s story is unique you can see how many similarities there are between all of us.

The only other thing I would add is you really need to take it one day at a time, doing anything more than that causes a lot of pressure and anxiety. For example you’ll have a good (relatively speaking) night then worry about the next night.

[Manfred]

@Jaran Would u please elaborate a bit more about your sleep anxiety? How severe was/is it? How did it manifest? How did a typical night look like? How did u sleep with this anxiety?

Thanks in advance

[Jaran]

@Manfred, I have struggled with insomnia and the frustrations surrounding it for many years. I’m retired now, but when I was teaching and raising my children, the overwhelming worry was how I’d be able to function the next day. As we all know, worrying about sleep doesn’t help a person sleep!

Over the years, insomnia persisted, independent of the ups and downs of life that would explain bouts of insomnia for a “normal” person. I tried all the various tips and fixes, discussed insomnia with doctors, and talked with supportive family and friends who assured me that everyone has bad nights and this too shall pass. And gradually I came to believe: There’s definitely something wrong with me. I’m unique, no one else has insomnia like this. No one can understand. People might think I either have a mental illness or drug/alcohol problem. Maybe I have really do have mental problems? There is no cure, nothing that can be done. Everyone else gets in their 8 hours, but I rarely get more than 5 or 6, and that’s got to be bad in the longrun. I can’t sleep without “something” to help. There’s something wrong with me.

Now I’m retired, my children are grown, and my life really is in a very good place. Except, I just don’t sleep well. I ruminate about it during the day and dread the nights. Not surprisingly the sleeping meds I’ve taken for years don’t work well, if at all. My crisis point came when, in the last six months or so, I had several dangerous middle-of-the-night attempts to “make myself sleep” with large doses of various meds and alcohol. I wasn’t exactly sleepwalking, because I was cognizant of what I was doing, yet not really awake either because I didn’t seem to have any ability to apply judgement. It was as if my body did this on its own, with my mind as an onlooker. It scared me. A lot.

In addition to my usual negative sleep thoughts, my mind was screaming: There’s something horribly wrong with me! No one else has this problem! Every night I face hours of misery and it’s never going to get better. My meds don’t work. I’ll just mix in some OTCs too. Nothing works! I’ll just get up and have a drink or two. Eventually, the alcohol will knock me out. But wait, what if I become an alcoholic! But I’m desperate, I have to do something. But wait, mixing all these meds and alcohol could actually kill me! But I don’t even know how to sleep anymore! I’m not normal. There is something really really wrong with me.

And so one night, going through this tug-of-war in my mind, I decided there just HAS to be a better way. My online research for a sleep clinic that wasn’t focused on sleep apnea led to CBTI, videos with Martin and a couple others, and Martin’s 2 week course. And here I am. I implemented all the components, and have worked hard on readjusting my expectations for sleep (no I shouldn’t go to bed earlier with the hope that I’ll fall asleep earlier; no I don’t need the proverbial 8 hours; no I don’t need to just lay there waiting for sleep to overtake me; no I won’t die from lack of sleep…). I’ve also come realize that I’m NOT alone, there is a way to make nighttime better, nothing I can *safely* do will “make” me sleep, and facing/letting go of the useless anxiety is a key component.

By no means am I cured. Following the CBTI instructions have been a powerful step 1. Now, I’ve got to work on really letting go and facing the anxieties of getting in bed and “just knowing” it’s going to be a miserable night. That’s going to take some time.

[anmareta]

@Jaran thanks for sharing your experience and indeed you are not alone on this. I get also inspired by your journey and that you are facing your fears now and trying this. It’s hard work!! It inspires me to keep ongoing.
For now, I am actually making peace that I do not sleep for so many hours. Actually, I have family members who also have insomnia and they inspire me too. They already have grandchildren, but what they share with me helps me so much. Both of them accepted their insomnia and they do not think there is something wrong with them. Some days they get more hours others less, but the fighting is not there. That has helped me a bit too. In the beginning, I thought, well they are just wrong and weird. But now, I am getting it, they are not and I am not. Since they did not fight so much with their insomnia, they enjoy life and get up quite early and go on with their day. I do not get how. I asked my aunt a hundred times, why is she not so angry and anxious as me? She says, well when she is tired and her body needs sleep it will come, so no need to rush. I talk to her a lot and it helps me to calm myself down. Also, seeing that she is older than me with grandchildren even and a full life makes me realize that my thoughts that my life is over are not a fact. Indeed, is the fear in me. It is damn uncomfortable and still a pain for me to have this, but I feel I am in the process of accepting it more and more.

Also, there is a very beautiful youtube video on how to be with anxiety when it comes. It has helped me on the nights that I am anxious and my head is going a hundred miles. It can be found with this title on youtube: – Understanding and fixing the real cause of anxiety…

Here it is explained what fear does and how to be with it in theory and in other videos, there are more practical ways on how to do that. I think being tired is annoying, but what is more challenging for me and what I have worked super hard for so many years is to get rid of the anxiety that is connected with insomnia. Actually, now realizing that I do not need to fight it and just feel it.

[Manfred]

@anmareta and @Jaran – thanks a lot for your great posts. And yes, you – we – are not alone in this.

I too struggle alot. I know it is all about letting go the anxiety, go through it, facing it, accepting it aso. I know this all too well. But when I lay down in bed, it is as if almost forget what to do – that is nothing. But I keep resisting even if I “don”t” want to.

But we must keep going. Surrendering is not an option.

[Author]

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