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Hi from Russia. I have one big question. I had somniphobia after many sleepless night after benzowithdrawal two years ago. I mostly recovered but sometimes i have sleep anxiety and insomnia setbacks. A month ago i had moderate setback and i tried cbt-i by myself and immideately my sleep anxiety and bed-fear association became 1000 worse. In my opinion the reason is 20 minute rule where you have to get up if cant fall asleep. Problem is every time i did it my sleep anxiety become 10 times worse becouse i started assiciated my bed with something i have to run from in 20 minutes. Of course i didnt sleep at all, i didnt sleep for days to the moment i become suicidal and paranoid. Then i had to lie in bed for hours to show my brain that nothing wrong would happen if i lie in bed and dont sleep. only then i was able to get few hours of sleep . Cbt-i says get up from bed if you cant sleep. but i know from original cbt says for example if you scared of snakes you should not run from room full of snakes after 20 minutes in it, you have to stay inside until your fear dissaper. So i have a question what to do if 20 minute rule works in the opposite way? Sry for my broken english.
Hi Alexander!
Welcome to the forum and sharing your story. You’re correct, typically lying in bed being frustrated you’re not able to sleep creates a negative association between your bed and sleep and that’s why it’s recommended for you to find something more enjoyable to do. If you’ve found that lying in bed is more comfortable and you’re able to fall asleep, then I’d encourage you to continue doing what works for you. Since you’ve implemented other evidence-based techniques, are you going to bed and getting out of bed to start your day at the same time each day? Do you feel like you’re pressuring yourself to sleep at night by experimenting with ways to “fix” your sleep?
Scott J
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Thanks for answer Scott J. I am glad to hear from specilaist that i can dump 20 minute rule , at least until i my hyperarousal become better I hope you are not suffering from insomnia too according to the time of your answer (3 AM). I usually went to sleep 10pm or later, woke up 2-4am . But after self implemented CBT-I i went wrong i cant do it anymore . Right now In order to get any sleep i have to sleep in the morning . Yes i know its bad , i will try to fix it when my hyperarousal becomes better. You see i am so hyperagitated right now that even sitting and writing is a torture, always dry skin and pins and needles everywhere , headache, heart palpations and etc, 24/7 torture. I am very afraid to continue cbt-i right now becouse i had experience with psychosis and hallucinantions after 5 sleepless days and month with almost no sleep before it. , when you never feel sleepy and only heavy drugs at psych ward can sedate you and stop you from completely lose your mind. Right now i am trying diet changes to lower my stress hormone levels and lower glutamate in brain. I hope it helps becouse in theory how can you be agitated if your brain dont have fuel to stay agitated. Once again thx for answerd , it is shame that i dont have money for cbt-i course (consequences of living in third world country) so wont disturb you anymore.
Ok, i have a big problem. I didnt sleep at all since my last post. (since decEmber 7) Later this day i went to veterinary with dog at night and since i cant sleep. For the last two days i tried 6 hour sleep window, and i didnt lie in bed. Walked everyday. But could not sleep becouse i didnt want to sleep at all, still dont feel sleepy. i dont do any drugs or coffee. I am very worried . I think its “second wind” . Should i continue or should i go to hospital. Help.
Hello Alexander and welcome to the forum. Since you identified yourself as someone with somniphobia and have described feelings of psychosis, hallucinations, paranoia, and feelings of suicide, I would strongly suggest working one-on-one with a therapist.
As you have experienced, in the short-term, implementing CBT-I techniques can lead to additional sleep disruption — it’s not unusual for sleep to actually get a bit worse before it gets better. As Scott mentioned, if being in bed when you’re awake feels good, it’s probably OK to remain in bed since conditions are right for sleep — and we certainly don’t want to do things that increase anxiety or make the nights more unpleasant!
Here’s a short video about this that you might find helpful: When the idea (or process) of getting out of bed during the night creates worry and anxiety.
As you have pointed out, it’s hard to sleep when we have a lot of worry and anxiety — however, sleep drive always wins in the end.
I hope this helps.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Hello Martin, thanks for the answer and your time. I was able to fall asleep last night. I did a lot of mindfullness meditation yesterday and i think it helped with my sleep anxiety and hyperarousal. After last meditation in the late evening when i managed to finally cleared my brain of any anxious thoughts i felt a little sleepy, i wasnt nodding off , just a little sleepy but i went to bed anyway , lied and said to myself: if i cant sleep its ok, if i go to psych ward tomorrow its ok, if i die its ok. I felt asleep pretty fast and woke up in 6-7 hours of broken sleep. After that night i think because of my overwhelming anxiety and hyperarousal, any core cbt rule i try to implement like wake up in 20 minutes and etc my brain process in wrong way and focus of these rules like a maniac. You and scott were right and it seems 20 minute rule is not for everyone and its definitely it is not for me at least until i deal with my overwhelming anxiety. Even thinking about this rule or about strict window make my sleep anxiety 10 times worse. As you suggested will try to find good therapist to help me deal with my anxiety and somniphobia. But i dont want to dump cbt-i i think i will adapt it for my state of mind, i will continue sleep hygiene (no blue light etc) i wont nap at day, i wont use my bad to anything else then then sleeping or preparing for sleep. I will try to go to sleep at the same time. These rules dont affect my anxiety and definitely very helpfull. Thanks for help once again.
Thanks for sharing that you got around six to seven hours of sleep last night, Alexander — this proves that you CAN sleep! It also sounds like you have a good plan in place for improving your sleep over the long-term!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I am so so happy for you. Was following your comments. I hope I will also be able to sleep at least one hour without my brain thinking or talking. Living through almost the same problem as was yours. Have tight sleep always!
Thx Nadya. I have just read your first post on this forum. . I am sorry you suffering so badly. Have you tried mindfulness meditation? It helped me a lot. You see its very hard to fall asleep and impossible to sleep well when your brain constantly thinking. Mindfulness meditation is very simple, just sit down, relax if you can, set alarm for 30 minutes, close your eyes, focus on your breathing, try to breath little slowly than normal, when you notice that your brain start thinking – return focus on your breathing Do it for 30 minutes. You will notice that in the beginning of meditation it will be very hard to stop brain from thinking but it will become easier later. And there are a lot of guides about this type of meditation across the internet. When i got accustomed to this technique i started to meditate every time i had unwanted thoughts ,even when i was doing dishes.
Alexander – it sounds like your plan and efforts are improving your sleep – GREAT JOB!
Scott J
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Thanks Scott, and i have Update, successfully survived another setback caused by bad allergy reaction. For the last week i have been Sleeping 6-7 hours of broken sleep that is ok. Now i have strict schedule, i usually feel sleepy around 9.30-10.30 pm, woke up at 4.30 – 5.00 am by myself, i dont use alarm , i can usually feel the time. As i said before the most damaging think insomniac can do to his sleep is going to bed in anxious state of mind and then tossing and turning trying to fall asleep. .Just 2 days of tossing and turning in bed without proper sleep is enough for me to almost completely kill my ability to fall asleep and feel sleepy for the next entire week.
Alexander,
It sounds like your actions are really moving the needle in the right direction!
Scott J
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
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