[Daf]

Some people on here claim that their insomnia is that bad. Must be awful.

I often have episodes of where is it every second night that is totally zero sleep. I feel for those folks.

Martin, do you think that this is really possible? Also, out of the whole general population, from your work, do you have any sense of what % of people experience nights where they get nil sleep all night?

(I’m asking because it seems to me that some people claim they have insomnia when they say they “only” get 5 hours sleep. Sorry, but that ain’t real insomnia. I would kill for 5 hours a night for the rest of my life!

[Martin Reed]

I would suggest that getting zero minutes of sleep at night is quite rare. However, if someone goes through an entire night with absolutely no sleep, they become extremely likely to get at least some sleep the following night. That’s because sleep is a biological mechanism, similar to breathing.

We can temporarily suspend breathing by holding our breath —  but, eventually, the body will take over and force us to breathe because breathing is a core biological mechanism. In a similar way, we can temporarily suspend our sleep (often involuntarily due to sleep-related anxiety) — but, eventually, the body will take over and force us to sleep because sleep is a core biological mechanism.

If you go through a night of almost no sleep, followed by a night of sleep, then another night of almost no sleep, you would likely find a course of CBT for insomnia to be highly effective. That’s because the pattern you describe suggests that your arousal system is the cause of your sleep disruption — when you don’t sleep, sleep pressure becomes strong enough to overpower the arousal system and force sleep. However, when you then sleep, this sleep pressure becomes less powerful and the arousal system is, once again, able to take over and suspend sleep.

CBT for insomnia helps to reduce the power of your arousal system while strengthening the other two mechanisms of sleep — sleep pressure, and the sleep/wake cycle. Over time, the arousal system becomes weaker and this leads to fewer nights of disrupted sleep.

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[Lenochka]

What Martin describes here is right for a healthy individual. But when you have some comorbid health issue it is not working the same way. For example me. I have insomnia and schizoaffective disorder. Both started several years ago agter extremly strong stress (I would say a shock). Without sleeping aids I do not sleep at all!!! Recently I spent five days and nights with zero sleep (exhausted and willing to die) after what my brain switched off for a short period of time (maybe 15 minutes, maybe 30, something like that). After that again – four full days and nights with zero sleep. No compensation at all. Something got broken in my brain that does not allow me to fsll asleep. Something in brain biochemistry.

I read about excitatory and calming mediators and found ou that I have problems with ADENOSINE metabolism: it is either not accummulating or not stored in the body. I figured it out by symptoms of adenosine deficiency. And no idea how to correct my adenosine deficiency. I cannot find any literature about it. I do not know what to do now. Our doctors do not know anything about broken adenosine metabolism.

If someone of you met this on the Internet please share. I am dying of no sleep.

Our sleep specialists say that I will die soon. Nothing helps me. I have tried tons of approaches. I develop tolerance to all of them very quickly. I do not know what to do. I already had several attempts to commit suicide. Insomnia is a hell. Many years ago I had a serious depression. It was much easier than my current insomnia. No meds work for me. I developed a resistance (or tolerance, I do not know what is the difference). The same is true for herbs. I developed tolerance to them. Magnesium initially worked but then stopped. I do not know what to do. I will die soon. My doctors also do not know how to help me. Die soon.

[Davy]

@lenochka ad my worst i was also awake for days on end ad those bad episode also thinking i am going to die from this the word insomnia is often misused i think people that say the sleep 5 to 6 hours and they say the have insomnia don’t know the first thing about it i can relate what you are saying it’s a living hell i now averages on 2 to 3 hours a night but there are also the many sleepless night and like you i tried everything don’t give up hope yet we are still alive your sleep specialists saying you are going to die is very unprofessional ofcourse this will not increase your sleep the way i dealt with it was just lying there thinking well this can be the night i die and there is nothing i can do about it and in a weird way giving up of letting go relax me and give me some hours of sleep

[Daf]

Yes, I quite agree. I have had regular nil sleep nights and I do think there is a heck of a difference between folks who get 4 or 5 hours regularly (some regular poster here are like that) and say they have insomnia and those of use who have suffered nil sleep nights.

Agree too with your advice – just try and let go of the struggle. Sleep will come in the end… if not tonight, or next night, then the night after that. Have faith! When it comes, try and keep sleep limited in duration. My target sleep is about 5 or 6 hours. Any more than that and I’m at risk of not have enough “sleep drive” to sleep the next night. Also have a real slow wind down two hours before bed when you dim light and watch TV.

Good luck. I feel for you. It will pass, I promise.

[Edgar]

Why do you think nil sleep nights are so rare? I’ve had many,many of those throughout my life, lying in bed until dawn, then getting up wanting to scream. I couldn’t help hearing each ring of the church bell indicating the next quarter of the hour all the way till dawn. Then, next night, paradoxically, I found it even harder to relax and fall asleep, which is also quite common with insomnia, loss odf sleep increases the tension around sleep.  I’m sure many others lived through the same thing.

You act like you’ve only just discovered insomnia.

If you’re that desperate, do what I do and try Valium, or some other similar substance. Since I discovered it, I haven’t had a single nil sleep night. Sure, it might screw you up in the long run, but you will (most probably) fall asleep every night, at least for a couple of hours.

Of course, talk to your doctor first, that goes without saying.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Edgar.

[Daf]

Indeed, they are not rare. When my own insomnia was at its worst I’d have 8 or 9 nil-sleep nights in a single month. I realise some folks have even more than that.

[Lenochka]

Davy, I would be happy to have 5 to 6 hours of sleep. I also would not call it insomnia.

Daf –Sleep will come in the end… if not tonight, or next night, then the night after that. —

This is true for a healthy individual. I have schizoaffective disorder. It may cause my insomnia. Or may not. Noone knows. My EEG shows my brain is overexcited. My mental illness and insomnia started at the same time after extremely strong stress. Actually it continued for several months. So you can imagine.

Edgar –If you’re that desperate, do what I do and try Valium, or some other similar substance–

I do not know how valium is called in Russia but I tried EVERYTHING available on our market. They used to work in the beginning. But then suddenly ALL OF THEM stopped working. I developed resistance to them. My doctor continues prescribing me meds but none of them work.

Our main sleep specialist in Moscow says that a healthy avarage people can survive without sleep 7-8 days (with nil sleep), then stroke and death. I am pretty close to it.

[frozensun]

I totally disagree with Martin,I know back when I worked I couldn’t sleep 3 nights in a row,not over day even,nightshifts…not even 5 minutes.

So telling that you will sleep after a night on nil sleep is a joke to me :/

 

[Author]

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