[jazzcat22]

Martin, in one of your posts you mentioned that a cause of insomnia can be homeostatic disruption (reduced sleep drive).  That’s what I think I have.  I can easily do sleep restriction because I usually am never sleepy before 2 a.m.  Even after 9 months of this, it’s still so strange to me.  For 64 years I’ve gone to bed between 10 and 11 pm.  Every night—even New Years Eve!  And I fell asleep within ten minutes.  Usually my head would start to nod off while reading before I turned out the light.

And now—nothing.  I seldom experience head nodding.  Sometimes a little yawning.  Not my eyes closing when I read.  A slight feeling of being tired or not as alert as normal.  But in general, at 11 and 12 and 1 I feel pretty much as I do at 11 and 12 am!  Not hyperaroused, just not sleepy.

I sometimes experience a bout of sleepiness at 2 or 3 pm (but don’t nap).  May have a two minute microsleep while watching TV from 8 to 9 pm.  But where is the sleepiness that is supposed to build up after 16 to 17 hours of waking up?   Is it possible that some people take 20 hours to get sleepy again?

Even at 2 am I don’t really feel sleepy but can sometimes fall asleep then.

I wake naturally between 6 and 7 am, regardless of what time I go to bed.  I don’t work, but like to start my day then and go to the gym around 9 am.

I am able to function on four to five hours sleep, but don’t have nearly the energy I do when I sleep six to seven hours.  And I’m very concerned about the health implications of less than seven hours sleep 9although if I get ill I won’t really know if it’s something that would have happened as I age anyway or if it’s the sleep).

Meds and supplements can’t even make me sleepy.  So what may cause this homeostatic disruption/lack of sleep drive?  My doctor is clueless, other than to say as we age we make much less melatonin.

[Martin Reed]

First of all, let me reassure you that there is no evidence that getting less than seven hours of sleep causes any health problem whatsoever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoX04HJihNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnVHQpVmFLw

If you don’t feel sleepy before 2:00 AM, it is entirely possible that you are a night owl (you have an eveningness chronotype). If you aren’t getting sleepy at all, this suggests that you are getting sufficient sleep.

Are you currently following any kind of regular sleep window? If so, when do you normally go to bed and how long does it normally take you to fall asleep?

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[jazzcat22]

Thanks for those links, Martin.  They do help me calm down about this.

I do realize that I might be a night owl—it’s just strange since for 64 years I never stayed up past midnight, even for fun, and went to bed around 10:30 every night.  And as I’ve done my entire life, I still wake up around 6 am, no later than 7, regardless of how much (or little) sleep I’ve had.

I have been all over the place taking drugs and supplements and trying CBTI for very short periods (a few days), ACT for a week, and then trying to combine the ACT and CBTI (like reading in bed for an hour, then trying to sleep, getting up after an hour, reading, and then trying again).  Sleep times would vary from 11 pm to 1 am.  Sometimes I could fall asleep within 20 minutes,  Usually if it doesn’t happen within 20 minutes it’s not going to happen for hours later.  And I was unfortunately doing the contingent meds thing you discussed in one of your videos—trying to sleep without meds and then giving up and taking them at 1 am, which made me groggy the next day (antidepressants) and further cemented my perception of not being able to sleep without them.

Two nights ago I actually read some articles about insomnia and watched some of your videos.  It helped calm some of my anxiety.  So I decided to see how I would do just taking melatonin and nothing else.  I resolved that when my husband turned out the light at 11 after we read in bed from 10 to 11 that I would go into another room and read/listen to podcasts and delay my sleep because as usual I didn’t feel sleepy.  But since the light was out I just wanted ti see what would happen if I laid my head down, sure that I wouldn’t fall asleep since I didn’t feel sleepy.  To my surprise, I fell asleep in what I judge to be 10 minutes and stayed asleep for 7 hours!  That was a first without anything other than melatonin.

Feeling that I was on the road to recovery, I tried to do the same the next night but had a feeling I wouldn’t fall asleep since I not only didn’t feel sleepy but felt more alert and less tired than I had the night before, after a week of three to four hour sleep.  Nothing.  So I read and listened to podcasts in another room until 12:30.  Still not sleepy.  Tried again every half hour.  Finally fell asleep listening to a podcast from 3 to 5.  Went back to bed but couldn’t fall back to sleep and got up at 6.

I’m ready to devote myself to CBTI.  I’ll do a window of 12:30 to 6.  And it might be that I will fall asleep within 20 minutes after 2 hours of sleep the night before.  But then if I get 5 or more hours of sleep it will be likely that I won’t get sleepy until 3 the next night.  It’s like my body doesn’t want consistent sleep night after night within each 24 hour period.  I actually noticed this before the insomnia, seeing that a “good” night of 7 hour very sound sleep would be followed by 5ish hours of not so sound sleep the next night.  And right before the insomnia happened I noticed I was no longer able to fall asleep for the afternoon nap I’ve been taking for years—becoming one of the few 64 year olds who doesn’t nap in the afternoon (and who only falls asleep for a minute in front of the TV set around 9!).

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