[flight11]

What to do. My current sleep window is 6 hrs and 15 mins ( in bed 11:45 out of bed 6 am). This is based on Martin’s instructions after his two week online course. Trouble is I barely make it to 11:45. I am nodding of doing anything at around 10 o’clock ( reading, TV etc). Despite my SW being 6 hrs 25 min, I only sleep from midnight to 3 or 4 am – the rest of the night fractured or awake. According to SR protocol I should be shortening my SW 15 mins . Don’t know if I can possibly do this- I am a 68 year old . Will probably pass out again early in the evening with even greater certainty. Any advice would be most appreciated.

[Scott]

Hi Flight11,

Thanks for posting and I’m encouraged to see you’re following Martin’s course. Staying awake until the start of your sleep window can be tough and I experienced the same issue as you when I had insomnia. I found it beneficial to be somewhat active but engaged in relaxing activities such as coloring, crafting and preparing my lunch for the next day. Any sedentary activity such as watching TV and reading can make it more difficult to remain awake. Are there any activities that would be relaxing but would cause you to have some motion that you could do until your sleep window begins?

When you wake in the middle of the night, are you anxious and frustrated that you’re awake or do you get out of bed until you’re sleepy?

Scott J

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If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[flight11]

Thanks for the prompt response Scott. To answer your questions:
1) I have tried any number of activities to keep awake until my designated sleep window but I am so tired ( mainly because of the previous night’s poor sleep) that I keep nodding off in the middle of the activity.
2) In the middle of the night I do get out of bed after 20 to 30 mins not because of anxiety but just because I can’t sleep. It would seem that my sleep pressure is just not enough at this point in the night to get me back to sleep.

[Martin Reed]

Welcome to the forum! It sure looks like you are on the right track here!

Since you usually feel very sleepy from around 10:00 PM and it sounds as though you fall right to sleep when you go to bed, you might want to advance your sleep window so it starts and ends a bit earlier. Do you think a sleep window of 10:00 PM to 4:15 AM or 10:30 PM to 4:45 AM, for example, might be more manageable?

When you wake during the night (which is actually a normal part of sleep), why do you think you find it hard to fall back to sleep?

Since waking during the night is a normal part of sleep, I’d suggest allowing yourself to remain in bed for as long as being in bed feels good. If and when being in bed doesn’t feel good, you might then choose to get out of bed to make that nighttime wakefulness a bit more pleasant and avoid creating/reinforcing a negative association between your bed and unpleasant wakefulness.

Final question: Are you checking the time when you wake during the night?

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[flight11]

Martin,
Thanks for your suggestions and questions.I will, as you suggested, move my window so that I start and end a bit earlier.
To answer your two questions:
. I really don’t know why I can’t. fall back to sleep after waking up in the middle of the night. Could my sleep pressure be too weak at this time? I just lie awake, bored , for several hours ( with periodic get-out-of-bed relief). I never seem to get more than 4 or 5 hours of sleep per night with obvious negative consequences the next day.
. finally, yes, I do check the clock periodically so that I can keep a record for my sleep log of TST. Thanks again for your help.

[Rosie c]

Hi flight11
I have exactly the same problem as you. I’m 71 and very active by day.
If I move my sleep window to 10pmill be likely to wake between 2.30 and 3.30. Its unlikely I can get back to sleep which is the problem and then I make the problem worse the next day as I’m so exhausted and want to sleep earlier and earlier.

Baffling!!!

[Martin Reed]

It definitely sounds as though arousal seems to be making it harder for sleep to occur when you are in bed. So, let’s see if we can do anything to help tackle that!

First, I’d suggest not checking the time during the night since that increases arousal and makes falling back to sleep more difficult — if you are logging total sleep time, then it’s usually far more helpful just to use your best estimate.

If you are lying awake for hours in bed during the night, you might be reinforcing some conditioned arousal — training your mind over and over again that the bed is an unpleasant place to be. I’d suggest getting out of bed whenever being in bed doesn’t feel good and doing something to make nighttime wakefulness a bit more pleasant until conditions feel better for sleep (or, at the very least sitting up in bed and doing something more pleasant than tossing and turning).

Finally, what are the obvious negative consequences associated with not getting more than five hours of sleep? Are they 100% caused by how much sleep you get, 100% of the time? Might there be any other factors that influence the quality of your day other than the number of hours of sleep you get?

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

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