[delv-x]

Hi Deb,

Things have been patchy. It’s like Ill get 1-2 weeks of 80-95% sleep efficiency and then things just fall apart and take time to get back on track. The therapist I am working with is one of the very few that is board certified in Canada in behavioural sleep. I wouldn’t be able to find anyone else that is as knowledgeable as him in the local area.

I do feel down when I have a few bad nights sleep and feel just exhausted, low, down during the day. I need some positive support! 🙂

[Deb]

There’s always the internet. On the whole though are you getting better? Do you understand why things are falling apart so that you can prevent it from happening again? If not, then I would keep looking for help. Certification is no guarantee of results. Years ago I went through a very bad period emotionally and sought counseling. I went through 4 or 5 different counselors before I finally found the one who could help me. He had less credentials than all the rest.

[Mac0908]

Ha, you’re certainly right Deb, when it comes to Insomnia at least. Looking back, my first sleep doctor had absolutely positively NO real clue how to treat my problem. He just told me to relax and to not think about it much. Sure! Though I will say one thing about this horrible condition. It’s one of those few things that you almost have to experience and go through yourself to fully understand and comprehend. That being said, you’d think a sleep doctor would KNOW of all these types of things we’ve been talking about here over the last month. The guy never said a word to me about spending less time in bed, cutting out electronics, or waking up the same time every day, etc.

Ever since my day of horror on Friday February 1st where I had such a horrible sleep the night before that I experienced dizziness (a rarity for me in these 2+ years), I’ve been sleeping ok. Beginning that Friday night I starting sticking to every tool I’ve had and haven’t gotten cocky one bit. I haven’t gotten 7 or 8 hours every night, but I can say I haven’t gotten anything less than 6 since February 1st. That’s huge for me. Last night I got 6.5. This is the longest stretch of “Decent to good” sleep I’ve gotten since beginning my SRT. But of course I know maybe more than anyone here how even a patch of 3 weeks can mean nothing if you don’t stick to it well or how it could simply just start coming back.

Now if it were 3 months of good sleep? Then I’d say I’m mostly cured. Time will tell. For all we know I could get 5 hours tonight. Don’t wanna jinx it of course! Just going by realistic possibilities instead of cockiness.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Mac0908.

[Deb]

Sounds like you’re definitely going in the right direction, Mac. Yes, I may sleep every single night this week for all 6.5 hours, but I won’t consider myself cured until it’s been 2 or 3 months of this. Also, on those nights when I don’t fall asleep right away, if the sleep demons are no longer creeping in keeping me up half the night then I will consider myself finally past all of this.

That’s something else, Mac, that even a sleep doctor didn’t know about CBI-I. They’re supposed to be the experts! I actually suspected they might not be helpful so I didn’t even bother to go to a sleep doctor here. I figured they would just want me to do a sleep study to see if I have sleep apnea. Glad I didn’t and found Martin and this website instead.

[sleepytime]

Can I ask. Since jan 26 three weeks ago ive have a case of severe insomnia. Its so bad and im desperate right now. Along with terrible anxiety, which is also at a all time high. Im going to see my doctor tomorrow to see what we can do. But I wanted to ask was. Your first night of sleep or rest, what did it feel like? Yesterday I think I had a small break threw I hope. I started to practice breathing and wow  I think it helped. I laid down and I feel this sleepiness that hit for the first time in a while. But while trying to take advantage of this I tried to fall asleep. But it felt like I was in some kind of limbo mode. I felt like my body wanted to drift off, but for some reason it didn’t….did you get this experience on your comeback to sleep??

thanks

[Deb]

Mac – I’m just curious. If I remember correctly, you don’t have problems with slept onset like I do but with staying asleep through the night. Since you’ve been sleeping longer these days does that mean you’re waking up less? Or if you do wake up, you fall back asleep more quickly and/or more often? What do you attribute it to? Less overall anxiety? Just curious.

[Mac0908]

Hi Deb. It’s been a mixture of a few things but yes, several times from the night of February 1 to February 9 it was case of me falling asleep around the usual time of let’s say 11, waking at 5, and then I’d be able to fall back asleep until 6. Not deep sleep in my opinion, but enough to absolutely make me feel ok for the day and ultimately continue to ease my sleep anxiety. There were also a few flat out cases of 11 to 5:30am in which case I would just get up and feel ok. I think 6.5 hours has always been my “ok” limit whereas 6 hours is iffy and as I’ve said many times anything under 6 and I’m toast. It took a LOT of work on my anxiety to be able to wake up, see the clock at 5am or so, and fall back asleep.

So ironically, last night I had a bad night. My first since January 31. However it wasn’t so much just a random bad night. Heard some weird noises outside my window for a good while and it began driving me crazy. Eventually I gave up on relaxing and trying to fall asleep. This then gave me anxiety which in turn led to sleep anxiety. Finally fell asleep for good around 11:30 I’d say, only to wake up at 4:45am. Flat out anxious sleep because of that noise. Feeling extremely exhausted today. Hoping for some words of encouragement and also hoping this doesn’t backtrack me anymore than it already has.

Howd you sleep last night ?

 

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Mac0908.

[Deb]

You’ve gone a long time without a bad night, Mac, so you must be getting better. And at least you know the cause of your rough night, so it wasn’t just out of the blue like maybe before. Also, you’re able to fall back asleep more often than before. So you’re on the right track, Mac.

The reason I asked was that I wonder for myself if as I keep on the program and my anxiety goes down, eventually I won’t have anxiety on the nights I can’t immediately fall asleep. I hate to always have to be so utterly exhausted in order to fall sleep. I don’t always want to have to depend on that and to fear not falling asleep right away when I hit the sack.

Last night I was already exhausted by 10:00. My husband went to bed early and I wanted to join him. Knew I couldn’t do that but considered going to bed at 11:00. But was afraid of jinxing things and stayed up till 12:00. Slept 6.5 hours but woke up tired. Oh well. Can’t complain though because I did sleep through the night. If this is a good week I hope to increase my sleep window next week to 7 hours. That much sleep would feel glorious!

 

[dragon]

Yeah Deb I wonder about the anxiety as well.  I have issues with sleep onset like yourself.  During SRT, are you finding it takes less time to fall asleep initially because you’re so exhausted by that point?

[delv-x]

I really wish I knew what is going on 🙁 The past few nights I’ve been only able to sleep for 2 hours. From midnight to 2am-2:30 and then from then on, I try to relax and just can’t seem to turn my brain off. There were times a few weeks ago when that was possible but right now I am in this crap zone.

I think at times I need more than CBT-I and may need antidepressants or something I don’t know. I just feel awful today and although I am at work, being at home would be more depressing since I can’t even nap. I can’t lay down and even catch a snooze. I just start getting anxiety.

[Deb]

Yes, I fall asleep right away, within just a few minutes. The sleep window has worked really well for me. Within the first week I slept through the night 5 nights out of 7. The other two nights when I didn’t fall asleep right away, I stayed up half the night.

[Deb]

Sorry things are so difficult for you, Delv.

[Mac0908]

Deb this is why I agree with Sasha’s thoughts on strict SRT. Before you know it, the entire thing ends up feeling like a crutch. You wanted to go to bed at 11 and were completely exhausted. I honestly don’t think there is anything wrong with experimenting with it one night. She pushes the “don’t be too rigid” factor when it comes to rules. The last thing you want is to be healed only to find out you’re just “healed” after you begin going to eventually go to sleep earlier and find out it bothers you and makes you anxious by doing so.

[Deb]

Thanks, Mac. Yes, the last thing I want is for this to be a crutch. I want to have some flexibility. Saturday morning I let myself sleep in for an hour. It was the best I’ve felt in weeks, or months! Had energy all day. By 11:00 I wasn’t exhausted like I usually am so I decided to push my sleep window a little later, to 12:30. I set my alarm for 7:00 instead of 6:30. It was not a problem – slept fine. Maybe I would have slept fine last night too, if I went to bed earlier. Guess I’m still cautious though for the most part.

 

[Deb]

Delv – My guess is that your depression is from lack of sleep. So if you slept fine, then you wouldn’t need an anti-depressant. Just a suggestion – how about reading Guy Meadow’s book, The Sleep Book? His philosophy is totally different than CBT-I and the main focus is on learning to reduce anxiety associated with sleep, which you seem to have a lot of. I’ve been reading the book and it makes a whole lot of sense to me. I’ve been reading it because I have some concern that I’ll still have the problem of staying up half the night on the nights I don’t immediately fall asleep. I need some strategies to deal with the times when I don’t fall asleep right away and the sleep demons creep in.

[Author]

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