[Mac0908]

Oh yeah no big deal. I’ll just “accept” it starting today and will be better in no time. Problem with people who push this method is that they fail to understand it absolutely doesn’t work for everyone. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried this mindset over the 2 years and went nowhere with it. Some people just have stronger insomnia anxiety that can’t get fixed without more drastic measure. End of story.

[Deb]

Why “accept” it when you can get better? The author doesn’t mention anything about trying CBT-I. I can understand accepting when you’ve tried everything. But obviously he didn’t or he’d be writing another story.

[Daf]

Yes, Deb, you are correct it does not say if the author did CBT-I though he did mention trying a lot of other things.

When my insomnia episodes started 2 and a half years ago I researched so much on it online. I really think I must, by now, know more than most sleep medicine consultants. The best books I read on it were by Guy Meadows, Chris Winter and Colin Epsie. All those books cover SRT and SCT to some extent, which I follow pretty rigorously

I went to a private therapist – maybe 20 sessions over the course of a year.

Our NHS (health service in UK) put me on a group  course for sufferers of insomnia for 6 weeks – 6 weeks every week meetings for 2 hrs, (with three other people plus a therapist), which was focussed on SRT and SCT and general CBT approaches to insomnia (including developing the right mind-set). Also, I did a series of 6  one-to-ones with an NHS therapist.

Later on, I went on another group course – his time with the big Sleep Medicine honcho experts at the Great Ormond Street hospital in London. Again, this was CBT-I including SRT and SCT.

On both the local NHS course and Great Ormond St courses, a big focus was completing sleep diaries and reducing time in bed not sleeping (SRT).

I have tried a number of drugs too. But they mostly don’t work, though I have found 7.5mg Mirtazapine (Remeron) can kick me out of a long episode of insomnia. But I have only used it very sparingly.

So, as you can see, I think one could say, I have had a “good go” with CBT-I and the SRT/ SCI approach – and yes, it works a lot.

But I still get insomnia episodes. Less than before, but still they come.

And yes, it still gets me down. But I have given up on finding a cause of it, other than realising my slightly obsessive, maybe controlling nature, which probably is a factor.  Plus age-ing which is linked to broken and less sleep in many people. ( I am 56)

And at the end of the day, I have had to accept it for what it is. And by accepting it, I do feel somewhat better and the pain that goes with it does diminish.

Ultimately, life is not always how we would like it to be. When I look at some friends of mine who have worse health issues (including cancer scares), and at the rest of my life, I just count my blessings for the good days and the good things in it.

So, the night before last, I did not get a wink of sleep. Felt bad, sure, but I just accepted it, got on with the day as best I could. First sunshine in weeks here in London, so I went for a long run, did some work (less than if I’d slept well, but still got some stuff done) and “moved on”. By accepting how I felt, the pain lessened a lot.

Last night got a good sleep. 6.5hrs maybe. Feel great and life goes on.

Please see that I’m not trying to decry your experiences. I have suffered too with this. I know how bad insomnia is. And I have tried many approaches. But, if at the end of the day, if you still have something after trying everything, like the guy in the article says, you either kill yourself or just accept it as part of your life. You cannot control everything, some things in life are a bit s**t, some things are REALLY s**t, but where else can you go when there is no more therapies left untried?

You just have to accept it and live your life. And in that, there is peace.

Chris Winter in his book notes the controlling nature of most of his patients. We have to see that for what it is. And let go of trying to control things.

[Deb]

Sure sounds like you tried a lot. So you stuck with a strict sleep window, used SC and slept only in your bed for weeks just like me and you didn’t get any better? You said you had a “good go” with CBT-I and that it works a lot. Then why did you stop if it was working?

I’m wondering if it’s not working for some people because their sleep window isn’t small enough. Even though being tired a lot has been a pain, it has helped to make this method work for me because the tiredness at bedtime overrides any anxiety. And now that I’m more and more consistently getting 6 hours of sleep at night, the cumulative effect is that I’m less tired. Of course, because I’m falling asleep more and more regularly the anxiety is also going away.

I’m almost 3 weeks into it now. Have had 5 good nights in the row. I’m in this for the long run, to make sure things stabilize for good.

 

[Daf]

Hi Deb,

I still use SRT and Stimulus Control. It’s essential I feel  – and the only thing really in one’s control.

But I still get episodes of insomnia – but they last less long now – maybe a week or 10 days, wherein I may have say 2 to 3 nights of nil sleep. They used to last 4 to 5 weeks long.

And in Sept/ Oct I had a whole 7 week with no nil-sleep nights.

But even if I sleep well, I always wake up 4 to 5 times a night – which is typical of older people, though not a problem for me, because once I’ve got to sleep once for an hour or so, I can nearly always turn over and resume sleep again,

So it seems to be getting better, but I accept it probably wont go completely.

Glad things working for you.

[Mac0908]

Glad to hear deb. Keep your positive words coming. With regards to my sleep woes this week, the pattern again is just obvious..

tues night – got cocky and went to bed not very sleepy , had a horrible night

weds night – went to bed semi sleepy and had a decent but still not great night at all

last night – went to bed shot/eyes dropping , and guess what? Slept 6.5 hours and feel ok today

@Daf something tells me you just haven’t been super strict about SRT maybe.  What has been your protocol when it comes to SRT? What has your window been like? Also, what do you think may have triggered your insomnia?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Mac0908.

[Daf]

Hi Mac,

Sounds like you had a decent week, that is good.

I’m pretty strict with my protocol, esp given that I’m self employed and given my work schedule and the fact I have a lot of control over when I work, I could easily take liberties with SRT.

My insomnia started with asthma 2.5 years ago, following, we think inhaling some dust. Cleared after 4 months – and I could stop using inhalers. Asthma has now gone. But it gave me some nil-sleep nights at the time, though I had had the odd nil-sleep night on a very occasional basis in the past.

Insomnia episodes I get cannot linked to any stressors in my life.

Kind regards Daf (Him in that there London)

[Deb]

Daf, you’ve mentioned sleeping on the couch, which is not consistent with CBT-I. I did that for awhile too, but now I’m strict about sleeping only in my bed. Everything has been pretty strict for me – the 12-6 window, the SC when I can’t sleep and sleeping only in my bed. I did have one bad night where I just couldn’t stand the thought of only 3 hours of sleep, so I slept in an extra 1 & 1/2 hours. But I got right back onto the schedule the next day.

Looking back, I think the first two weeks are the hardest. But if you can be strict with yourself during that time, then it starts to get better. So I will continue being very disciplined about this, although its getting easier as time goes by so less and less I will be tempted to cheat in order to get some sleep. So up front it’s hard, but in the long term it’s easier. As they say, faster is slower, and slower is faster. If we give ourselves relief in the short-term and don’t follow through consistently, then in the long-term the insomnia hangs on. But if we can be patient and perseverant up front, even if it takes a few weeks to begin to stabilize, I believe we will save ourselves months (or years) of struggling with this.

[Davy]

dudes be happy here you get more sleep then you think

[Deb]

Another bad night. Blah! Got up 3 times and didn’t fall asleep till about 4:00. Got up at 7:30. Why can’t I get more than 5 good nights in a row? I was very tired last night also. I could barely keep myself awake for the last hour. But then as soon as I hit the bed, the worry started creeping in. Last week a couple times I managed to fall asleep after getting up only once. Somehow I was able to calm myself after I got up the first time so that things didn’t spin out of control like they did last night. Have to see if I can do that again, especially tonight when the anxiety might be even higher because of last night.

[Martin Reed]

Loving the constructive conversation in this thread! One thing I will add is that it’s impossible not to have a bad night of sleep every now and again. The ultimate goal of treatment options such as CBT-I is to make the good nights more frequent than the bad nights (this is done primarily by addressing inappropriate and/or incorrect thoughts and behaviors related to sleep). So, CBT-I will improve sleep if followed consistently — but it can’t guarantee that every single night will be filled with uninterrupted, blissful sleep!

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Deb]

My sleep window has been increased to 6.5 hours. Yay! But I’ve got to give up my naps and alarm clock snoozes. Slept the whole night through and woke up feeling good. Yay! Was afraid I might get anxious because of the night before, but fortunately, no aftereffects of the bad night.

[Mac0908]

That is great to hear Deb. Keep at it.

I personally did not have a great night. Went to bed when sleepy around 10:50pm. Crashed around 11:15pm. Was hoping to make it my 6:15am alarm seeing as how there was not much anxiety at all when falling asleep and seeing as how the previous two nights were good and how I have no work today of course. However I woke up at 4:45am  🙁

Still, I stayed in bed because I didn’t feel much anxiety at all and assumed I was going to fall back sleep for the last hour which happens quite often in this type of situation. I never did. I don’t know anymore. It just feels like I’m not progressing to where I want to be, 3 weeks in now. How am I supposed to have good nights on work nights during the week when I can’t even get good nights on the weekends consistently?

I think I might have to revert back to the strict sleep window of 11:45p-6:15am.

[Deb]

Sorry you didn’t have a good night, Mac. Sounds like a good idea to get more strict with the sleep window. I know it’s hard to stay up when we’re really tired, but this consistency really does seem to work. I thought for sure I would get anxious last night, but I think the association between bedtime and sleep is getting stronger, so I konked right out.

Sometimes during that last hour or so before bedtime I can barely keep awake, nodding off and maybe getting through only 2 or 3 pages of my book, but I stay up no matter what. I’m starting to get used to this routine now, so it’s getting easier. I think the body craves routine actually, and doesn’t do well with changing bed times, changing sleeping locations, etc., – just like little kids do well with routines. Maybe make a commitment of say, two weeks, to stick with it no matter what, and just see what happens.

[Daf]

Good advice from Martin there.

I think we all have to accept that every night wont necessarily be optimal.

And remember, good sleepers, (your wife or husband maybe – funny how every insomniac I have ever met has a partner who sleeps like the dead! I do!), wouldn’t even give it a second thought if they could not fall asleep for a few hours.

They would certainly not get anxious and end up having a nil sleep night!!

That is what we have to work on – not getting anxious if not sleeping in 30 mins, an hour, three hours, whatever….and frankly learning to develop a WTF attitude when that occurs, as it does even for my wife,  once in a flipping blue moon.

After all, you will sleep in the end. If not tonight, then almost certainly the next night. The sleep drive will eventually trump the anxiety in the end. So, as Martin said in one earlier email. “If you can’t sleep just try to just relax and see what happens”

[Author]

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