[Janie]

I’d like to respond to Chee2308. I’ve seen a few of your posts. Always very wise, very settling. How is it you’re still here with us all since you seem to be well recovered? I wondering what your secret is to such a calm wise approach. I could use some of it. I was touched by you’re saying there’s no good or bad sleep. In theory I see how that really helps to tone down the struggle. However, how do you convince yourself that no sleep for many nights isn’t bad vs good?

[Chee2308]

Hello @Janie

Thank you for your kind words. I may come across as irritating sometimes when I tell people the honest truth that their problem is almost always just an illusion. It is your mind playing tricks on you. Don’t waste any time figuring this out. Because it is just not worth it, as your body knows what it’s doing and it just cannot do it wrong. If your sleep was broken, there will be ZERO sleep ALL the time, not 2, 3, 4, 5 or whatever hours it is almost always getting. So the fact you are always getting some sleep and that doing srt or stimulus control involves nothing external, whatever you need to do to sleep is already internal inside you, you are not getting good amounts it because you have essentially been caught up in this self-inducing and self-perpetuating hoax perpetrated by your own mind.

There is almost nothing physical you can do about sleep except generating sufficient wakefulness by staying awake that induces sufficient sleepiness. That’s all there is to it. Since the problem is psychological, adopting a mental or philosophical approach is more appropriate in my opinion. Stop running away or fearing it. The world of insomnia is full of paradoxes. Examples include:
1. Doing less is more.
2. Having more insomnia to beat insomnia. Because more insomnia automatically = less time sleeping = more time awake = more wakefulness = more sleep drive = more likely to sleep. And the converse is true as well. It is cycle that repeats itself all over again and insomnia + good sleep are both stuck on opposite sides of the same coin. To achieve great sleep again, you need to have a bit of insomnia and so forth.

So when you ask me, how do I achieve the calm wise step, I would say, when you know what psychophysiological insomnia is all about, that would be the most natural step to take. Because you can’t do anything physical about it and neither does worrying about it makes it any better either. In fact, it can make it worse. So just sit back, relax and let your body do its job.

[Buddy370]

Hi Chee2308

I love reading your calming posts and I’m trying to follow your advice. Trouble is my obsessing mind is hard to control but I guess it takes time and practice
I can be very positive most of the day but by 3 am with no sleep my resolve weakens and the worry takes over. Did you find sleep restriction and stimulus control helpful ? .. I find the sleep restriction doesn’t work for me but I do get out of bed and watch tv if I can’t sleep as I’m trying to befriend wakefulness and I find I’m getting better at being awake. Last night I fell asleep for two hours on the couch and woke up feeling really strange. But I take sleep whenever I can get it at this stage of the game .. so my resolve is to stop worrying and thinking about sleep. I think I need to stop reading and watching you tube videos about sleep.. it’s keeping the obsession alive . Please keep up your posts as I think there are many of us who are finding them very helpful

[Chee2308]

Hey buddy

I found srt helped a bit. But it only helped to anchor my circadian rhythm so it’s not all over place as a result of falling asleep at 12am, 2am, 4am or some ungodly hour during my insomnia days. Once i fell asleep by a consistent time, everything else pretty much fell into place by itself.

I didn’t find stimulus control helpful at all. It increased my stress. I never got out of bed when i couldn’t sleep pre-insomnia so doing it while i had it was unhelpful. It helped reinforce the idea that wakefulness is wrong and must be avoided at all costs. I personally wouldn’t do it but i have heard it worked wonders for other people so I’m not in a position to tell what works for you. But always do what you did pre-insomnia. Because that is the state you want to return to.

So why were you sleeping on the sofa? And why weird you slept 2 hours there? You want to be in a state where there’s no bewilderment. Sleep is supposed to be natural and a result of being in a comfortable state and place and in a relaxed state of mind, so that can be anywhere and anytime and there becomes nothing to celebrate when you had a great night and nothing to despair over when you had a bad one either. You just become neutral and okay with either outcome. Good luck.

[Buddy370]

Hi Chee
Thanks again for your insightful post. You are so right about sleep and today I’m starting a new approach. I realise it is my overthinking mind that has got me here and it’s only up to me that I make the changes to how I think about sleep. I just need to pay it no attention and get on with life regardless of how much sleep I’ve had .. fake it until I make it😃
No more watching you tube videos and reading books on sleep.. I realise it occupies my mind 24/7 and because I’m not sleeping the night hours are ten fold
Anyway wish me luck and you should take up sleep coaching x

[Whiskers25]

@Chee2308 I appreciate what you’re saying about the paradox of no sleep sleep drive etc. but does this prove to be true during withdrawal? I feel like my brain is fighting extra hard- harder than when I first started this course. I have had two weeks of 2 hours or less of sleep a night and I’m active during the day still living life when I can. No naps. Getting up most days at the same time. It feels like I can’t even be hopeful that sleep drive is building. Is the withdrawal something you just have to ride out? I know Martin can’t speak into this in the course but I believe for many of us working towards coming off sleep aid and implementing what he’s teaching, it’s a HUGE factor.

[Chee2308]

Hello @Whiskers25

I do not know withdrawal from what exactly are you talking about? Sleeping pills?

From my “interactions” with my insomnia, I eventually came to realize there’s really nothing there. It’s all just a set of my own thoughts, fighting an illusioned or an imaginary enemy. Kinda like a cat chasing its own tail.

I eventually learnt to trust my own body, if I’m not sleepy, then it’s because my body just doesn’t need it at that point. At least not yet. But it’s come back eventually, it’s just a matter of waiting for it, and in the meantime, you might as well spend that time doing something enjoyable instead of worrying about it, because it really doesn’t matter whether you worry about it or not, sleep will still happen at some point, so if you chose worry, you would have spent that time unproductively and carried that worry quite unnecessarily over essentially what your own body decides what’s best or wants for itself. I also learnt to stop being petty and vengeful against my own body.

Of course, everyone’s different and as you have signed up for Martin’s course, he might have a better answer for you so I recommend you to seek his advice first and foremost. I wish you the best and hope you find your own liberation from your struggle soon.

[Buddy370]

Hi Whiskers
I’m no expert on withdrawal but I can only share my experience
I had bad insomnia when going through menopause and I started taking an antidepressant Effexor
Ever since I’ve not had a problem with insomnia but it was because I had the belief they kept me sleeping well . In reality it was my own natural ability not the Effexor
I’ve tried many times to get off them because I really felt I didn’t need them but then I’d have a bad night sleeping and it was my fear of insomnia returning I would go back on them
This year I decided I’m not going to keep taking them and insomnia has arrived with vengeance
It was my brain telling me I needed them when I know I don’t. I’ve found education is the key to how my brain works
I’ve been working on befriending awakefullness and if I can’t sleep I get up and settle in watching my favourite tv shows and I’m actually starting to enjoy those times. Being up before filled me with dread but I’m learning to be comfortable being awake
Also when I have a bad night of little sleep I have learnt to ignore how dreadful I feel and I’ve realised it’s my anxiety that is causing the symptoms and I’m just tired.. that’s all and I still can go about my day feeling ok and accomplishing lots of tasks.
I thought because I was coming off antidepressants my insomnia was somehow different than everyone else’s insomnia ., but were all the same basically with a few variables throw in.
Keep on educating yourself
I’ve just read This is Natto by Daniel Erichsen .. so good.. our brains are amazing machines and it takes time to rewire it to stop fearing being awake
I’m still struggling along with hit and miss sleep but I know I’m on the right track
Hang in there
We will all get there eventually x

[Greenleaf67]

Wow. Great encouragement and perspective here! Thank you and I will use it to reframe my thinking around sleep difficulties.

[Author]

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