[SIimon]

Don’t stop it cold turkey as it can be dangerous and at the very least you’ll get horrible withdrawl symtoms if you do that….even on a low dose.

Google how to taper off benzos for advice…. Good luck.

 

[SIimon]

My last two posts make no sense in terms of the earlier discussion as they were posted this morning (uk time) and ‘held’ awaiting moderation… No idea why but thought I would explain 🙂

[Edgar]

Thanks for the heads up, Slimon.

It’s ok, I understood the chronology of your posts in regards to one of them awaiting moderation.

Maybe I’ll keep the valium thing up until my neuro appointment then. I can’t wait to get an opinion on this from him. Too bad I only get a couple of appointments a year.

Thanks again.

[Edgar]

Hey, Slimon,

Thanks for the tips. I know, benzos do lose effectivness, I can confirm that from my experience. In the beginning, half of a pill would be enough to put me out almost immediately and keep me asleep for 3-4 hours more. In time, the duration of sleep that Valium got me shortened, went from 3-4 hrs to about 1-1.5 hrs. And now it doesn’t even put me to sleep effectively half the time.

But, as determined to quit as I THINK I am, I still reach for Valium when I wake up in the middle of the night. I can’t help it, it’s my only tool.

Valium IS bad, but it’s not the reason why I wake up too early. I still don’t know what that reason is. I’ll see what my doc says, though I doubt he will have an idea either. We’ll see.

[Daf]

Only one that’s worked for me is Mirtazapine (called Remeron also)

Zopiclone – Only gives you about 3 hrs sleep and is supposedly addictive. Docs in UK wont keep giving it to you.

CBD oil – Did not work for me

Melatonin – Did not work for me

Phernagan (Dipenhydramine, I think)  – Stops working after a few weeks

5 HTP – Did not work for me.

Valerian – Did not work for me.

When I say DID NOT WORK – I mean these drugs did not stop my chronic insomnia i.e. nil-sleep nights, where I was awake all night for maybe 8 nights out of 15.  W are talking “proper insomnia” here – not “Oh, I only got 5 hrs sleep insomnia” – that’s not REAL insomnia IMHO.

Here is my experience of Mirtazapine….the one that works, if you take it right!

From all my research on this drug and from own experience, 7.5MG is the right dose for insomnia. Larger doses do not work as well at all. Lots of quality research online on this unusual aspect of it.

15Mg and more is what they give people for ongoing depression, as opposed to feeling depressed the odd day after a “Nil-sleeping” night. It’s use in low doses for people with bad insomnia (as opposed for treatment of depression) is a side-use.

I have found the key is to take it at least one hour before you go to bed. That is really important. Then just relax and lie down. Don’t try to sleep.

Taking it in middle of night, when you cannot get to sleep does not seem to work regularly. It’s not a knockout pill!

I have taken it on a very occasional basis (or for periods of two weeks, when I was getting regular nil-sleep nights) to break those episodes of insomnia up and restore good sleep. It does have a long life and makes you feel drousy into the next day and even next night too, though, so maybe not great for old people who may have poor balance and indeed maybe people who have to drive / operate machinery next day (unless they are prepared to counter with a heavy dose of caffeine).

But it is that long half life – that is good for me. Because even the next night I still feel in a “cool-drousy place” and can sleep well.

It has regularly broken up long episodes of insomnia for me, (where I’m getting nil sleep say two to three times a week for 3 weeks)….. . And it has broken up the pattern.

But seems to work and gives a much longer sleep than Zopiclone.

I got a bit of weight gain with it, (the main side effect for some folks) but that was OK because now I was now sleeping better and feeling better) I was able to do lots more exercise, so that counteracted weight gain. (When I had nights of nil sleep I had to miss my evening football because I had been feeling too depressed).

Generally, I avoid drugs, but this has worked ad hoc for me to break episodes of insomnia.

Of course, its use as anti-insomnia is a side effect of it, this drug is used on regular basis for people with moderate to severe depression.

And in those circs – as a treatment for insomnia – it worked.

I am coming off it now – only taking it every three nights now , and thus far, have had no repeat insomnia.

I also practice all the CBT-I stuff and acceptance commitment therapy – as per Guy Meadows approach. I find both CBTI and ACT work (which is mindfulness based). The only thing that is daft with CBTI in my opinion is the insistence of getting out of bed after 15 mins if you cannot sleep. This, in my view, creates too much pressure. OK, if you are wound up, get out of bed and do something else that is relaxing (I watch nature progs on TV), though I usually can just accept being awake and stay in bed and feel calm. Whatever works for you though.

Hope this helps.

Daf (Him in that there, London)

Of course, I’m not a doctor!

[Steve]

Hi Daf. I was on Mirtazapine for about two weeks. I agree with the 7.5mg for sleep but they also say 15mg will work also. Anything above that is more to treat anxiety. They worked for about a week for me and then they stopped working. The problem with Mirtazapine is, even though they say they are not addictive, a person can develop a severe dependence on them. I got off of them before that happened to me since they stopped working anyway.

[Daf]

Interesting. That happened in the past for me – they stopped working after 3 weeks.

But this time they worked fine for 3 weeks, then I decided to gradually come off.   every other night for two weeks, then every third night, which is what I am doing now  .. no problems with repeat insomnia or other issues. (One minor effect was that I think it did cut my sex drive a bit when on them!!)

I think difference was this time I always took them at least 1 hour before bed, then made sure I really relaxed, lying down and watching something a bit dull on TV. Always then felt really nicely drowsy and sleep came.

Yes, some say 15mg works too. I guess if a person also has anxiety / depression that might be the right dose. For me anxiety was only transient after a night on nil sleep, otherwise I was fine – no anxiety or depression, so I just opted for 7.5MG.

[Martin Reed]

This is a great discussion. What I will add is that it’s important not to change any prescribed medication regimen without talking to your prescribing physician first.

When it comes to the over-the-counter stuff, none of it is going to cure chronic insomnia.

Melatonin does not cure chronic insomnia, valerian does not cure chronic insomnia, and diphenhydramine does not cure chronic insomnia. In fact, the body builds a tolerance to diphenhydramine extremely quickly (in as little as three nights). So using diphenhydramine for longer than three nights has no effect and any perceived benefit is likely entirely down to the placebo effect.

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