[elcid]

I had an equivalent of a breakdown 10 years ago. The worst part was the insomnia.  It made dealing with my issues so hard. The gp gave me Mirtazapine which knocked me out most nights, but trapped me in a foggy, dizzy hell the next day. I stayed on the drug ten years. It caused me to believe there was something wrong with me. I only discovered it when I had the courage to titrate down. Luckily I live in Canada so our pot laws are fairly liberal.  I started reducing the mirtazapine and using weed to help me sleep. I would go through temporary bouts of insomnia which would scare the hell out of me. I would up all my doses of sleep aids until I gained the confidence to sleep better which would typically take 3 months. The idea of insomnia caused me to stay in a state of constant anxiety. These last 10 years have had their highs and lows,  but I started making lifestyle changes to adapt me to getting older. Meditation and mindfulness have allowed me to reach a degree of calmness I didn’t think possible without meds. Don’t get me wrong,  learning those practices wasn’t easy and, by no means am I an expert, but I continue to get better and more adept. Recently I was beset by another bout of insomnia so I decided to finally face my biggest fear and deal with it. I looked at a number of cbti sites. Martin is more expensive than most, but I liked the idea of the personalized coaching. I dreaded the idea of sleep restriction, but knew I would have to do it to achieve my goal of no more medication.  Martin has been excellent about getting back to me quickly via text and email to answer a myriad of my questions.  I did the sleep restriction thing. It sucks the first 3 days. I was so tired and tense. I stopped using mirtazapine altogether.  I thought I would go crazy. However,  the fourth night I slept the first time on my own for 4.5 hours and felt relatively good the next day. I slept in my own bed which had previously been a cue to keep me up. I am on week 4 now and am averaging 6 hours of fairly solid sleep a night now. For the most part I function very well on 6 hours. Some nights I still only get 4 or 5 and I panic a bit during the day, but it makes me tired the next night. Please remember people, this is almost entirely learned behavior. Tiredness can be your friend. It increases your drive to sleep, it sucks during the day but helps you the next night. Try not to get too anxious about it and remember that’s how we are designed. I am happy with my progress. I no longer take any mirtazapine and I cut my evening weed habit by half. I meditate at 10:30 and I can barely keep awake till 11:00. I would like to get 6.5 hours regularly, but I’m not there yet. I’ll happily take the 6 hours I’m getting now.

There is no overnight cure. You must go through some tough times, but if you succeed,  it will give you more tools for life’s curveballs. Some resources that helped me a lot:

1. Martin’s course and quick feedback.

2. Meditation and mindfulness practice. It’s everywhere now so check youtube or get a book. Start practicing. It doesn’t seem like it works at first, but it is a cumulative effect. You’ll improve and find out you can carve out moments of calm in your busy day without resorting to medication.

3. Sasha Stephens excellent book “The Effortless Sleep Method”. This book offers a nice common sense methodology for dealing with insomnia

4. Pittman and Karle’s book “Rewire Your Anxious Brain”. Let’s face it, most of us either had anxiety before or the insomnia caused it. I could never figure out why I constantly carried low to mid grade anxiety.  This book gave me great insight and helped me turn it down a notch.

5. Stop looking for magical cures because there are none presently. Insomnia is 99% learned behavior.  Your body wants to reach homeostasis and let you sleep. You have it in you to sleep.

6. Sleep restriction.  I know it sounds awful and it turned me off for years, but a week of suffering can set your rhythm again. I mean, you’re suffering from insomnia anyway, why not do it on your terms. The insidious thing about insomnia is you don’t think you have any control over it and that’s how it will be for years. Now I know that I have an effective, albeit somewhat painful, tool in my toolbox, I can always go back if I need to. It allows me a sense of control. I was convinced I am different than everybody.  I played rugby for 30+ years and got 7 concussions.  I thought I was doomed for bad sleep forever because of brain injury. However, like the majority of people who do it, spending less time in bed helped significantly.  With mindfulness and less time in bed, I now love the soft feel of my bed. When troubling thoughts pop up, I can usually recognize that they are just thoughts and I don’t need to react to the emotion that accompanies them.

7. I know this is hard, but try to stay away from negative posts in forums. Just reading one this morning gave me a little anxiety. Reading about other people’s trends to make me start doubting my own progress. It’s hard to know what issues the negative poster has experienced,  but you’ll project it on to  yourself. It will reinforce the idea it’s out of your control.

Thanks for reading my long post. I want to give you positive news. I am not out of the woods yet, but am happy with my recovery so far. I’ve had to change my lifestyle a bit which is stressful, but I’m getting older and pining for my youth isn’t helpful. Remember,  you all have the power to sleep in you. It maybe easy for some and brutal for others, but do the work and things will slowly improve and your life will get better.

Cheers

 

 

[jillyrunpee]

This is great encouragement and thank you. I am having a huge amount of trouble with the sleep restriction — it is so painful. Do you have ideas how to make yourself do it, ease into it, carry it through when you are so exhausted?

[elcid]

I really dreaded the sleep restriction,  but all the pills and weed I was using were just leaving me a wreck the next day, especially in the end when I was getting almost no sleep anyway. The formula worked for a long time then it did not. I knew i had been putting it off for years, but I had no choice but to try. The first night sucked because I got out of bed many times to disassociate my bed from sleeplessness. It isn’t  easy, but it also wasn’t as bad as I  thought. The worst part for me was the tension in my neck and back. I bought a small roller device which helped massage me. The worst day for me was day 3. I had to be at the rugby field all day and I was so tired and anxious. All I wanted to do was crawl into bed, but I toughed it out. By day 4, miracle of miracles, I slept 4.5 hours without pills for the first time in 10 years. I felt good. After a week I was sleeping 5 hours a night. My advice is to do it when you have some time off. It’s a lot easier to do the first week when you’re not having work pressure the next day. Set up somewhere comfy to lie when you’re not sleeping and go there if you don’t fall asleep within 30mins. Buy blublocking glasses or use an app which blocks out blue light. That way you can continue to use the TV to distract your anxiety without the awakening effects of blue light. I use a supplement called Kava which is an effective anxiety damper. Most importantly,  don’t go to bed till your really tired. If you do, you’ll be frustrated and anxious.  Read the Effortless Sleep Method by Sasha Stephens.  It is so well written that it calms you down before you attempt any practice.  The advice is eloquent common sense. Watch YouTube videos about sleep restriction.  There are a lot of encouraging stories. If you’ve been suffering anyway, commit to the restriction.  It frightened me so much that I wouldn’t even try for years. It slowly reprograms you to sleep better. I really didn’t think I could do it, but it’s yielded results. Just last night I had a bad 2 hour night, because J attended a wake and got loaded. But the two hours of unmedicated sleep I got  wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. I didn’t freak out. Also, don’t don’t don’t read negative insomnia posts. Most of them are about people in dire circumstances which you will identify with and give you anxiety. It’s so tempting, and I still continue to not follow my own advice, but you WILL get anxious.  You have no idea what circumstances the posters are going through so don’t identify with them. This is a learned problem that takes effort and willpower to unlearn. Once you make some progress on that 3rd or 4th night, you’ll slowly gain confidence.  That first week is the hardest.  I sincerely hope you can do this. I hope I provided you with encouragement.

Cheers

.

[Theresa]

I am hoping this will work for me.  Thank you for sharing all of that.   I know about Kava.  It is a good product.  I am using Sleeptime (has things in it to help you sleep) and something called Formula 303. Both are natural.  I tried the route of antidepressants  and sleeping pills. This only made things worse.  Working with a nutrionist who has me on other things to relax too.

[Martin Reed]

Thank you for sharing your experience and positivity, elcid. I am sure a lot of people here will find it beneficial.

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If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Theresa]

Hi Elcid,   I really appreciate all you shared.  It was very helpful and encouraging.   I, too, have had concussions and I wondered how much that is connected to insomnia and anxiety.  I, too, am going the natural route because the anti-anxiety meds did not help me. The side effects were hard to deal with. Glad to meet someone else who is trying to do that. I am using some natural products from a homeopathic Dr that seems to help…just started on them. So far I am only getting 4 hrs sleep.  But I am thankful for that. Still feel really tired all day ?   Wonder how many are Also  dealing with anxiety.

I wish you and everyone else success in overcoming this horrible problem

[Martin Reed]

Hello Theresa. I just thought I’d link to this article I wrote about sleep issues related to traumatic brain injury. You may find it helpful:

https://www.healthcentral.com/article/how-and-why-traumatic-brain-injury-harms-sleep

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[jillyrunpee]

So does it usually take everyone 3-4 days of intense and painful sleep restriction to see some good sleep happen?

[jillyrunpee]

Thanks for all your experiences. How did you use weed to help you? I am new to it, but it’s legal in CA and I’m looking at trying for a backup plan.

I made a note to myself about those books you liked. I’m adding them to my list to try with Magnesium oil.

I love my blue blocking glasses.

I need to get back into meditation.

Sleep restriction is physically painful, and I don’t have anywhere else that is comfortable to lie down or sit in my tiny cave-like room.

I’m slowly getting more sleep here and there, but now my dreams wake me up. They are awful dreams. My brain hates me. Anyone else see an increase in difficult dreams after getting an hour or two of sleep?

[elcid]

Jillyrunpee, sleep restriction is a bad name for it because it evokes a negative connotation right away. It is more like limit time in bed therapy. I was using my bed for TV watching, reading, and tossing and turning. It all starts by tracking your sleep on a sleep diary. After a week, you should have insight as to how much you are sleeping and how long you are in bed. You will probably find you spend a great deal of time in bed, but not all of it is sleep time. As I previously stated, sleep restriction is the hardest during the first three days. The biggest issue for me when I don’t sleep well is all the tension I get in my neck and shoulders. So it is somewhat painful during the first bit, but then you will fall asleep within minutes of hitting your bed.

As to your question on weed, it helps me a lot. I know Martin doesn’t advocate any crutches to help people sleep, but I find if I smoke 60 to 90 mins before bed, my tension and anxiety are significantly eased. I use indicas which are the best for helping you fall asleep. Of the research I’ve investigated, it seems weed will , initiate sleep faster, increase your deep sleep, but limit your REM (dream sleep). There is currently great debate as to the benefits of REM sleep, but most research and anecdotal commentary demonstrates that smoking weed totally inhibits dreaming. I’m probably limiting my recovery by smoking before bed, but I find it the easier route. Mind you, I rarely feel totally rested the next day, but it’s better than not sleeping. I am considering trying sleep restriction again without weed next time I have a week off.

Good luck.

[Chris]

I can actually say “good” afternoon to all of you-

Elcid, Jillyrunpee, Theresa & Martin.

I had my 1st 4 consecutive hours (sleep) in a row,

After a week of none. As hard as it has been for me over this week the last 4 days I have been absorbing as much from as many of you folks. THANKS, I really don’t care how it finally happened. Last night, the

latest endeavor on my own- Melatonin- Drops! & a quick exercise that I got here. I apologize that I am not

remembering who that was from. They know because I thanked them before I even tried it.

To everyone who is reading how does this work? I could write my entire list of drugs down, list all the

amounts and duration of use. And then one of you see a new one to try. And then I am reading what sounds impossible or to scary. SO far most is familiar, the Sleep Reduction sounds hard for most. But not yet for me.

I want to respond to everyone, just to say thanks, this is my 1st time doing something like this for anything let alone going to sleep. Elcid- you have 10 years to start off with, I have 12 but to compare is hard. When yo reference a Major Surgery and mine is simply since I last worked. But these all someone else. I have used grass all my life for anxiety/sleep/appetite. And now I would guess tolerance has reduced the effects. I have reduced smoking ciggs from 20 to 8 a day. It is hard to listen to (so far) everyone who seems to have a lot more reasons than I do for my Insomnia.  Repeating what I am> Chris, 53 epileptic.   This is not to make anybody here feel angry, ie. (when someone is mocking YOUR condition). This is to tell you that: I do not have a lot of normal issues. I am not married, no kids, no mortgage, nothing in my view that ADDS to my insomnia. Until this month and my last two extensive stints, I simply was accepting the changes. Simply getting older.

One of the most positive aspects (so far) is just that being positive. I had been doing so, but not in the fashion that I getting here. As much as I do not have to be as upset about, I use to be angry or upset about to too many things. That is what I working on, Now, bear with me, somehow I know how long 4 hours of sleep yields in energy for the next day. Reference Elcid- the neck and body pain! And I did not play any rugby!   Besides the normal decision what we do with that energy; here we are using it! SO…

I asked you all “How does this work?” So far, I ‘m not sure. The reason I found this site is because my 15 year connection is worried when I am telling him that last time it was a mere 111 hours before I got 11 total hours over the next 3 days. Almost done.. And now, Martin asked why was I counting the hours of no sleep? I am not today! I am looking forward to spending quality time with you know what! Whenever tonight is. SO, after 170+ hours we get 4hours (10pm-2am 9/26)

What now seems to be happening, is I am getting excited and looking forward responses and responding to everyone. CAN anybody relate with that?   Even if there is nothing in the post that I can relate with.

 

My mind and my body are not even or balanced? I mentioned I feel my issues do not seems to be as worthy, adding to this list is being Left Handed and paradoxical reactions to some drugs. Grass and alcohol for example. Or, without drugs, the feeling of waking up when it is time to go to bed. Stimulus seems part of the equation, I think. And that part right now especially do this new big Tool in my box.

How frigging long am I suppose to devote my rested restless mind for the daily/nightly grind of sleep?

IS not doing this helping something to get tired? I thought it did. And now it is well time to stop!

Thanks.  Pardon me if this too anything. I think the negativity was getting excited.

 

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