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It’s always the fear of poor sleep that’s driving everything. Essentially the stress over not getting sufficient quality sleep is enough to keep you awake. This has nothing to do with cbti, taking meds or whatever. As long as you continue to have fear, you will continue to have sleeping problems on and off, here and there. But with or without fear, some form of sleep will still happen. No matter how afraid you are, your sleep system will continue to work to give you the minimum sleep you need to survive, regardless of what you do, or what you take. This means you WILL sleep but you would just carry this fear with you all the time over nothing. Think about why you need to fear poor sleep so much. Is it because you are scared of having health problems, dying, feeling tired or whatever? Then find out if it’s really true. It’s almost always false, having little sleep is harmless. You may feel a bit more tired, or feel sleepy all the time (which shows your sleep system is perfectly functional!) but you won’t die or have any kind of health problems.
Hello!
Rebound insomnia is just classic insomnia. Nothing different. Comparing between one who takes pills and one that doesn’t, but both are still extremely anxious about sleeping, they would both present the exact same symptoms.
It’s still your fear of poor sleep that’s driving this. Always was and still is. Maybe others here have a better answer for you. But I think I have spoken enough. Best wishes!
Hello!
Imagine this senario: your doctor told you that all along you had not been given sleeping pills at all, you had been given placebo pills instead. Shocked? So how did you sleep all this while? Because this is exactly what happens when you take sleep meds, meds can only make you drowsy, but not put you to sleep. Only your own body can make sleep happen.Essentially, what are insomniacs trying to do when they crave sleep so much? They are constantly trying to prove to themselves that they can sleep. And they do this desperately every night, trying to prove this already well-known fact and yet despite that, still always live in fear lest their sleep gets broken somewhere somewhat.
Didn’t you say you slept for 6 somewhat nights without meds? So there already is your partial proof. Just keep going and the longer you go without meds and still sleeping, the more solid that proof becomes. Then one day, you don’t feel compelled to prove this anymore. The evidence is so overwhelming that it’s rock-solid and unshakeable. Think of it as something as natural as walking. But now you would rather sit than walk because you just don’t need to prove, over and over, that you can walk. It’s about time you really let this go. There will come a day when you think nothing of sleep. Good luck!
Hello
It tends to get better over time. As long as you’re on the right path and start adopting the right mindset.
Well, I think you already get the rough idea when you said ‘do’ in quotes. Which brings to mind some phrases I’ve come across that people here use to describe this stage of the recovery, such as “Act like you don’t care”, “Fake it till you make it”, or some people wrote down repeated affirmations like “I sleep great” which they claimed sound ridiculous at first but then suddenly the statement started to become self-fulfilling, to their disbelief and delight, or some who engage in mindfulness or meditation of some sort. I think the basic idea is the same. To keep yourself occupied with something other than sleep. To get the pressure off sleeping for a bit.
If I asked you, how did you learn to walk? You might go, “well it started with crawling, and then this and that, I was walking before I even knew it. It’s really kinda the same here. You really learnt to walk because you didn’t pressure yourself, weren’t bothered with the final outcome or which stage of the process you were in. That is achieving without caring! Good luck.
Hello and welcome to this forum!
Unfortunately, sleep is one of those paradoxes in life where the more you do or try to control it, the worse it gets. Please don’t chase sleep or make it your ultimate goal. Just do the bare minimum, such as regular bedtimes and pretty good sleep hygiene (like a wind-down period and sleeping in a cool, dark, quiet environment). Leave the rest to your body. Try not to fret over it! Trust your body, it knows how to sleep. Nobody ever went to kindergarten to learn sleeping.
Depending on your personality and patience, it’s going to take some time for things to settle down. Be very patient and non-judgmental with yourself. The real cure isn’t sleep itself, it’s really your tolerance to poor sleep and how you react to it. The final stage of recovery is not missing sleep anymore. You automatically want to stay up more because it’s more fun that way and perhaps even feeling that sleep is a waste of time. Good luck.
Why is it relevant what other people say? Do you even know them personally? Are you absolutely sure that your circumstances are identical? If a child told you there’re monsters in the closet that are keeping him awake, would you take that seriously? Yet, that’s exactly what you are doing with these “stories”.
What matters is what you truly believe in. Ultimately, do you trust your own body? Sleeping is really like eating or breathing. To your body, they are no different. All these are core biological processes which your body needs to do to stay alive. Try to go on days without eating or breathing, is it possible to forget how to eat or breathe? How does that even work? Eating is as easy as putting food in your mouth while to breathe, all you need to do is just inhale. For sleep, the act of going to bed is akin to putting food into your mouth. It’s your overprotective mind that’s feeding you with unnecessary and unhelpful information. But even your mind can be wrong!
Please stay off the forums if you haven’t developed the ability to independently evaluate the info. Or, if you insist, take everything with a grain of salt. Otherwise, you will only suffer needlessly. As it doesn’t matter what you read or do in regards to sleep, your body’s sleep system will kick in when you have been awake long enough, every single time! Going to bed regularly helps keep that system healthy. Ignore everything else because they’re truly irrelevant. If you are trying to sleep, making your mind go into overthinking mode by reading irrelevant stuff is probably the last thing you want to do. Stay off them, at least for a while. Then when you’ve recovered, you’ll probably laugh at them and yourself for being so ludicrous. A lot of the stuff are rubbish. All this while, all you ever did was hoodwinking and scaring yourself with a set of your own thoughts by imagining all these worse-case senarios which haven’t even happened yet, if at all!
Hello and welcome to this forum!
Your sleep problem is a very common and classic one. Almost every insomniac’s nightmare started like this.
The root of every insomnia is almost always the overthinking, overdoing and over-catastrophizing over lack of sleep. I and many others are here to tell you there’s nothing wrong with the occasional sleepless night or with your sleep system. Believing there’s a problem when there’s actually none is the main problem.
Keep your sleeping hours regular, get out and into bed at the same time every night. This is the core of cbti and the most practical step to get out of insomnia. Be very patient, disciplined and super compassionate on yourself. Because this will take some time to get back to normal. How long will depend on your personality and patience. Remember nobody is judging your sleep except yourself. Never measure success or failure based on just one night. One poor night never means your future nights are doomed, on the contrary, after poor sleep, it means good sleep is always just around the corner. Because these polar opposites are connected together and form opposite sides of the same coin.
The other aspect is the mental part, which is the fear and over-catastrophizing. Try to remind yourself these are only thoughts and don’t shut them out. Allow them to form in the mind and experiment with yourself to see if they’re really true. As you get better, most people will start growing out of them. Then they just don’t bother you anymore because there’s no shred of truth in them at all. All this fear has been a hoax all along.
Toward the end of your recovery, try to see that true recovery is never about getting good sleep every night. It is your response and mindset to poor nights. If bad nights happen, which they almost always do occasionally, but you’re no longer bothered at all, not compelled to ask many questions and try to seek quick fixes, or actively try to avoid them, then congratulations, you’re cured! True recovery is not living in fear of poor sleep. Good luck.
The bottomline is perfect sleep isn’t the cure. A change in mindset is. Ultimately, you want to reach a stage where you don’t lose sleep over sleep anymore, or couldn’t be bothered even if you did. You’ve become indifferent to a night of poor sleep and it doesn’t register in your mind that something is wrong or needed fixing. And you just know, from experience, constantly asking questions or actively seeking quick fixes, is probably futile and only distracts you from enjoying your life in the present moment. Good luck!
Hello and welcome to the forum @smueller1117!
When you’re recovered, you will realize those ‘big scary men with masks’ are really just a set of your own thoughts. You have been frightened by your own thoughts all this while, did you say, for 27 years?
Hello @Winston!
Unfortunately nothing here constitutes a permanent cure for insomnia. Because there is none! Nobody, including Martin himself, is claiming once you are sleeping well or continue to do cbti religiously, sleepless nights will never happen to you again. Such a claim would be an outrageous and outright lie. If you can’t sleep, then it means just that, you can’t sleep for that particular night only. It doesn’t mean your future nights are doomed. No further explanation is needed and it is pointless searching for one because it only makes you miserable dwelling on the past and continue living in fear for the future.Perhaps what you need is a change in mindset and attitude. Try to forget about your past and begin every night on a fresh page with no expectation or attachment to any outcome. Continue to wake up at the same time every day, go on your business as usual (you may find you can be just as productive) and going to bed at the same time. That’s really all you can do, the rest is up to your body. Good luck.
Hello! You are free to go back to bed anytime as long as it’s within your sleep window. Good luck!
Hello! It doesn’t really matter what you choose to do with your thoughts. But it’s important to attach lesser and lesser meaning to them as time goes on. Suppose you drive every day, and your mind gives you thoughts like ‘you might get into an accident today’ or ‘you’ll be injured’, how do you see them? Do you take them seriously, avoid driving for that day and just stay at home? Or do you accept them as just mindless noise and still go out driving regardless? Thoughts about sleep or practically anything are the same. They are harmless and have no influence on the outcome. Thoughts are just a reminder of things that could happen but don’t necessarily will. In fact, most of the time, they don’t happen. It’s how you view them that’s important. When your sleep starts improving until you sleep great almost every night, will sleep thoughts still bother you? Probably not, because you won’t take them as seriously anymore. Good luck!
Hi @MaggieMae
Hello and welcome to this forum. I believe the minimum sw should be around 6 hours. It doesn’t matter if your nightly average is less than this, you always start with 6 hours. A common mistake is to start too short, then people find it’s impossible to keep to (kinda like restricting yourself to just 800 calories a day on a diet), or the enormous pressure they put themselves to sleep within that short window that makes it much more stressful and counter-productive. Hope you find this useful. Your best sleep happens when you are super easy-going about it, not feel pressured at all and just believe your body will allow it happen naturally. In other words, no longer using a sw. Good luck!
Hello! Be willing to entertain thoughts of nights with zero sleep. Instead of trying to shut them out or escaping. This means you become more willing to listen to your overprotective mind, which is just trying to protect you. If you try to shut it out, it amplifies the urgency, ups the alert levels and you end up with alarm bells going off everywhere in your body in the form of panic and anxiety attacks.
Maybe spend some time quietly every day just to acknowledge your thoughts and what your mind is trying to warn you about. Tell yourself it is okay to feel this way and indeed very natural and human. But try to accept that nothing controls sleep. It is a biological process that happens after being awake long enough. In the same way you get hungrier or feel the urge to inhale the longer you go without food or breathing.
Try to imagine what a senario with zero sleep entails. This means different things to different people. It may mean poor work performance, feeling lethargic, low energy levels, foggy mind or whatever. Be willing to experience all these, in fact expect them to happen. So then what’s the big deal? You will still get through the day regardless. A night or two of no sleep won’t hurt or damage you in any way. Remember the longer you go without sleep, the likelier you will sleep because of all that sleep debt getting built up. This is the ultimate truth about sleeping.
When you then come out of the ‘other side’ from this experience, you begin seeing what insomnia is all about. Just a set of thoughts and how you relate to them. Thoughts can’t control sleep either! So all this has nothing to do with your innate ability to sleep. Basically you were just frightened by your own thoughts. Good luck!
Hello! The logical thing to do would be to first treat the underlying illness causing discomfort and pain. So you need to seek professional medical treatment. Your sleep would probably take care of itself, just get into and out of bed at regular times. Other than that, nobody here can offer any further help. Good luck!
