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In Canada they offer it in 5mg and 7.5mg so I have 5mg and split it to 2.5. I hear you about feeling lousy. I find a higher dose doesn’t really help. I would still wake up 2-4 hours later anyway. I think I slept better before I started. It only really helps with dropping off I find. So nights where I am exhausted I may take the plunge and don’t take it at all.
I still worry because during the day I sometimes feel fatigued and remember back in college/high school that I would just lay down and sleep for an hour on demand. When I felt stressed I would sleep to cope and now it’s the opposite. The arousal and self monitoring is awful at times and hope that I can overcome that and keep it at bay. (I guess keep doing CBT-I and some acceptance and doing what I used to do before all this)
A lot of things have helped me through this journey and one I can think of off the top of my head is that the first half of the night is the most restorative. So if I go to bed at midnight and wake up around 4am and from 4 to 7am I am not even sure if I slept or not, I know the more important portion of sleep I have. Some nights I can fall back asleep and others I have more trouble but try not to worry about it. I no longer have a sleep tracker watch (it broke) so I’ve moved past that. I do still keep sleep logs and have for 9 months and thinking about giving that a break and just keep my reasonable window of 7 hours and get up at 7am and hope I don’t need to resort to getting out of bed before that.
Thanks Daf for the update and a positive one!
Sleep isn’t ever “broken”. It is something that is ingrained in us from evolution and can never be unlearned. It is like hunger, breathing and going to the bathroom. It’s just that it is harder for some and I think all of us struggle. Some more than others unfortunately. Support from family and friends does help. Also good news that you’ve reduced your dose. I’ve reduced down to 2.5mg of zopiclone which is 1/3rd a regular dose and didn’t really know the difference in terms of sleep and slept a little better actually. A few times I’ve woken up and tried to get back to sleep and take more didn’t seem to help at all so I am convinced that sleep drive itself is much more powerful than sleep aids.
I am ok. Sleeping about 6 hours a night more or less. A bit tired throughout the day but trying not to worry about it and just go to bed when it’s time and hope for the best. Still better than before.
I’ve been ok. Definitely better than a few weeks ago with 3-4 hours of sleep and about 50-60% sleep efficiency. I am back at 85-92% and averaging about 6 hours. Another 30-45 minutes of sleep would be nice but one night at a time.
One thing I will recommend to anyone who’s been struggling more than a few months.
– Even if your sleep efficiency is 85%+ for a week or two, don’t add another 15 minutes just yet until you can consistently get 85% for a few more weeks. If you decide to add, do it in 15 minute blocks and not 30.
– Going to bed before your sleep window here and there is probably ok if you are tired and confident you will fall asleep in reasonable time. More importantly is your wake up time.
– Wake up at the same time. Some will say +- 30 minutes but best to aim for the same time every day or as close as you can. If your circadian rhythm is doing its thing, you can usually wake up naturally at the same time every morning.
– If you’ve been sleeping relatively well with say 6 hours, I find if you can push an 8-9 hour sleep once or a few nights in a row may risk relapse. I think the worst thing you can do is have a few days of 1-4 hours sleep and then if you can, sleep 9+ hours to make up. Consistency is key. Your body may push/pull for more/less sleep but what is better is find a compromise in the middle. Say a 7 hour sleep window.Hi Deb,
Things are okay. As you know I had such a good stretch of consistent nights with little complaints. Then this bout of poor nights stringed together for 2+ weeks. 2 nights ago I had my first night without resorting to getting out of bed. SE was 90%. Last night I had 4 hours in one block and then another 2.5 hours of I really don’t know if I slept.
I am not that worried because I can’t really control sleep (amount of it). So i’ve stopped trying but allow enough rest if needed. I am worried that before this began I was getting 6-7 hours and now in the 3-4 range but I can’t really do much about it.
What I believe works best even more than stimulus control (also important) is sleep restriction. It’s like putting out a dish of food for a cat for 10 minutes a day. It may not be hungry or want to eat much but after a few days it’s less fussy.
The big shock to me has been that I used to be able to just lay down even if bored and either just dose off or lay there quietly. Now if I can’t sleep, I get anxious and then just feel the need to get out of bed. Damn anxiety!
Long story short is things are ok. Onset isn’t really a problem for the most part. It’s maintenance. I get 3-4 hours and feel like it was deep sleep, I feel too awake to dose back to bed for another 2-3 hours. I still try and I may be getting more sleep and having sleep state misperception/paradoxical insomnia to some extent.
Yet another horrible night 🙁 Went to bed at 12:00 and woke up at 3:00. From 3:00 am until 7:00 was in bed, out of bed, returning to bed and laying down relaxing and knowing I am not sleeping. With the amount of little I am getting these days you would think it would have built up enough to keep me asleep. Today I am feeling anxious and songs repeat in my head. That sticky song feeling. I keep looking back at my past sleep data and try to reassure myself that I’ve had good periods in the past and I will again.
One thing I am not doing 100% is stimulus control. Yes I get out of bed after 15-20 minutes and know sleep is not approaching but I leave the room and return about 20-30 minutes later and try to see if I can sleep. If I don’t, I try to relax and be comfortable but I may be doing that for hours until time out of bed. I do return to my bed but last night I spent the last 2 hours on the couch which I know is a no no. 🙁
When things are going well none of this applies. I go to bed, wake up here and there and drift back to sleep and not worry or care. I know there are “hold outs” but this is more than a hold out.
I am on day 13 in a row of poor sleep. I am getting 3-4 hours a night. From 3-30-4:30am on, if I am in bed I am either not sleeping or possibly light sleep and feeling frustrated. I do get out of bed for SC for a bit. I just have NO clue what is going on. I really miss the 6+ hours of sleep and not needing to get out of bed and just dosing off until my wake up time. Sometimes I feel like it’s a “chemical imbalance” and other times I think it’s conditioned arousal that can be behaviorally addressed. My mind and body is too aroused and overpowering my sleepiness and drive. I just wish I knew what steps to take that would address this the best.
@Mac
Sorry to hear about your latest update. Frustrating, tired, exhausted and defeated aren’t even good enough words. I do hope this is the last bad wave for a very long time.
I am actually still on a bad wave. It’s been oh 11 days in a row now of 3-4ish hours of sleep. I’ve been pretty meh about it at first because I know they will pass in time. If I need to get out of bed I am not as worried as I would have been months ago but after a week of this I’ve become more concerned. I keep reading about sleep facts “Your body knows how to sleep and can never be undone”, “sleep is as basic as breathing and eating”, “you can’t control how many hours you can sleep”, “sleep is an effortless process”.
Words of encouragement is welcomed. I am hoping that I start trending upwards.
Small naps under 20 minutes before 3PM generally won’t affect sleep drive. Longer naps or naps closer to time in bed will reduce sleep drive.
As for napping, it’s a tough call. Some say never, others say before 3PM and keep them short.
To answer your question is yes.
1. Your body will compensate for loss sleep by providing deeper sleep.
2. The anchor you want to set is your rise time. So if you go to bed at 11:30 most nights and wake up at 7:00, the night you go to bed at 1:00, be sure to wake up at 7:00.
Most importantly with bouts of insomnia is to continue to live your live and not let insomnia dictate your life. It’s difficult but better than staying at home on the couch drowsy/fatigued and unable to sleep.
Hi Deb,
How are you making out these days? It’s been over a week of 3-4 hours of sleep which is a little unusual for me. Problem these days is sleep maintenance and waking up at 3:30-4:00 am and can’t drift back off to sleep. The zombie feeling is there. I miss and enjoy the 6.5 hours that were predictable. I have no clue why I relapsed. Nothing was going on that was major. Actually weeks ago I had a major family issue and my sleep was not impacted. Strange how we work.
@Mac
I do mini celebrations when I get good sleep but the bigger celebration is when you have a year or more of relatively good nights with some bad peppered in which is normal. I am still in relapse after 5-6 weeks of decent sleep. No idea what triggered it but when you have a bad night you dwell on it and then spirals down.
I think strict is good for most if they want to get back on track. Once things get better can start to make some modifications but in my experience it’s really hard to predict if the looseness was the reason or it was inevitable. I’ve heard some say wake up at the same time no exceptions, others say same time +- 30 minutes. Some say no napping, others say yes if necessary, Guy Meadows says sure take a 20 minute one if you can to relieve some anxiety and pressure.
Everyone is different and some things may work better than others. I was pretty much doing the same thing for weeks and got derailed and wonder if it’s because I slept in 30 minutes a few days earlier.
Hi Mac,
Glad things have been going well since Friday. I had a 5-6 week stretch of what I would call pretty good. 5.5hrs – 7 hrs with good sleep efficiency. Then for the past week I’ve been all over the place with 1:30 to 4:30hrs with poor sleep efficiency. I have no clue what triggered it! Even during those past few good weeks I didn’t deviate much. I was going to bed roughly at the same time and getting up at the same time. Some mornings I would stay 30 minutes longer or so.
Right now my problem is I wake up around 3-4am and can’t get back to bed and get high anxiety when drifting off in a vicious loop. I’ve reinstated stronger SC and trying to get back on track. The longer this goes the more I worry of course.
You’ve come to the right place. Chronic insomnia is no picnic! It is isolating, scary, worry some and depressing. The good news is it can usually be tamed using CBT-I techniques. This site has a lot of useful information and should help you get back on track. You aren’t alone.
My question is: once we start seeing improvements, is it normal to still have bad nights of sleep sometimes even though we are doing everything right? Is there an explanation for why it happens when we are doing everything right? Will this eventually go away as well?
is it normal to still have bad nights of sleep sometimes even though we are doing everything right? Yes, no one is a perfect sleeper. It is expected everyone will have bad nights.
Is there an explanation for why it happens when we are doing everything right? That I can’t answer but wish I could. Perhaps it’s just your body/mind needs more time or there were external factors (room too hot, big presentation, stress, anxiety)
Will this eventually go away as well? No, BUT.. the frequency should be less and less. In other words, if you are having 75% poor nights, with consistency it may be down to 5-10% and that may mean one or two semi poor nights that recover quickly. Everyone is different and each night is different.
