- June 17, 2019 at 2:33 pm #30175
Daf✘ Not a client
For me , that would be a more than adequate night.
What made it a bad night? Was it because you felt bad the next day? And if so, are you sure that the feeling bad was a function of the sleep you got / didn’t get? Or is there something else going on? I thought you used to be like me and got nil-sleep nights, (sorry if I’m confusing you with someone else), in which case getting 5 or 6 hours ought to be bliss, surely.
I still get nil-sleep nights, where I don’t sleep at all, but I’m just grateful I get a lot less of them than I used to before I started SRT/SC and ACT etc.
Average sleep for someone in their late 5os like me is 6 to 7 hrs, I understand.June 17, 2019 at 2:39 pm #30176
That’s good advice Delv. I did extend my SW by 15 minutes and I’m now wondering if that was a bad thing. I, however, don’t wake up at the same time every morning. That’s one of my problems. Another problem I have is that when I have to do SC, I find that sometimes it’s better to just get up and out of bed for the morning as there is so little time before my alarm rings, it’s not worth going back to bed. This is bad on the weekends. During the weekdays, I can get ready for work but on weekends, I am still very tired and what I’ll do is just spend time resting in a chair. Even if my SW ends I find myself just resting in a chair as I am too tired to get up and do activities. I don’t think I fall back to sleep after my SW but maybe I do. I don’t know. The important thing though, I think, is that I am out of bed at the end of my SW.
Mac – Do you have to do SC anymore or do you just lay in bed on a bad night?June 17, 2019 at 2:48 pm #30177
Delv… No I never had nights with NO sleep whatsoever. You are confusing me with someone else. Yes I know 6 hours is plenty for some, but for me that’s always been the iffy number. Me feeling bad today of course was a result of my sleep. There were no other possible contributing factors.
What made it a “semi bad” night was the fact that I got into bed not completely exhausted. This was a result of sleeping in on Sunday. Sometimes going to bed not completely exhausted doesn’t end up being a problem, but more times than not, it does. This is what I’ve been talking about a lot lately. How I’m worried that for the rest of my life I’ll have to depend on/revert to SRT is SOME form to maintain decent sleep.
Anyway, I’ve learned one thing through all of this and it’s that as long as I go to sleep when that sleep pressure is full force (head nodding/can’t keep eyes open), I have about a 90% chance of a good night. Last night I tossed and turned for a solid 25 minutes, and then as noted I had that early awakening around 5:20am. I fell back into that wishy wash/light kind of sleep until 6am. So overall you can’t even call it a true night of 6 hours of deep sleep. There was really no way out last night. I could have stayed up more and built up my sleep drive more (i.e. until 12am maybe) but ultimately this still comes back to having to maintain the sleep wakeup time no matter what and never sleeping in TOO much as I did Sat and then of course Sun. SRT still very much has to be a part of my life.
steve… no I’ve gotten past SC a while ago now. I guess that’s a positive. Then again I always fall asleep within 30 minutes anyway so I don’t really need to worry about Sc anyway. 95% of the time I only go to bed when my sleep drive/pressure comes on strong.June 18, 2019 at 11:53 am #30192
I’m sure many of you can relate to this as I’ve seen your posts, so how can I do so good one week and then fall apart the next week and have so much lousy sleep? Last week I was ready to crack the 5.0 hour sleep barrier and this week it seems all I can do is 4.0 or less. I probably should have done SC last night but I was so tired, I just lay in bed. The anxiety about sleep is beginning to build again. When I was getting 5.0 hours, the anxiety was considerably less.
How are the rest of you doing? I haven’t heard from some of you in awhile.June 18, 2019 at 12:06 pm #30193
While everyone is different, in my opinion its just going through the motions of it all. I’ve had good weeks, I’ve had bad weeks I’ve had good nights and I’ve had bad. While a bad week is no fun and rough no matter how you slice it, I feel like as long as you are making progress in the long term, you should be happy and know that you will only improve more. For example I think you can safely say you’re in a much better spot now than you were in January, am I right? I can say the same, even if that means I’m still anything but thrilled with my overall progress. With regards to SRT, there’s no excuse for laying in your bed and not going by the “rules”. You will only build back up your anxiety doing that. Trust me. 2.5+ years of experience has taught me that. You have to have such discipline on yourself in these early stages. Even if that means laying on your couch. What you want to do is avoid staying awake in the bed, Steve.June 18, 2019 at 12:24 pm #30194
I usually don’t have to do SC two nights in a row. But if I have to do it again tonight, I will get up. I never lay in bed more than one night without practicing SC. I think part of it last night was I was so tired, I was hoping I’d go to sleep. When I read my book before my SW began, it took me forever to read the chapter as I kept losing my place because I was too tired to read. That hasn’t happened to me in a long time so I thought I would sleep well. I didn’t. Yes, I am better off than I was in January and February before I started CBT-i. Just could do without the roller coaster weeks as I’m sure others could as well.June 18, 2019 at 5:05 pm #30196
Anyone else have an update? Daf? Delv? Deb? Borgesbi? flima? Slarus?June 18, 2019 at 5:22 pm #30197
delv-x✘ Not a client
I am ok. Sleeping about 6 hours a night more or less. A bit tired throughout the day but trying not to worry about it and just go to bed when it’s time and hope for the best. Still better than before.June 18, 2019 at 6:06 pm #30198
Deb, thank you for explaining about ACT. I’ve been practicing mindfulness since 2014 so I can definitely relate. Someone here mentioned reading The Power of Now – that is the book of my life! I’m always listening to Eckhart Tolle – talk about letting go of negativity! Interestingly though, when it comes to my insomnia I’m not always able to practice it, particularly if it’s a really rough night! I’ve been working “harder” to observe feelings and thoughts about it but sometimes frustration does take over.
Steve, Martin said he can’t comment on my progress since all those weeks of CBT-I was with another coach. I’m on the 3rd week of his course but he did say that a linear SE isn’t likely and that is is normal for it to go up and down. I like what Mac said earlier: it’s about how we are doing generally than looking only at “I’m still having bad nights of sleep” as hard as it may be. One thing I really appreciate since starting CBT-I for example is not having mental fatigue anymore, it used to be horrible and intense. These days I’ll be tired and sleepy sure, but mental fatigue is gone (red heavy eyes, head would feel like it was heavy and swollen, extreme tiredness but not sleepy). Another new thing I’ve been appreciating is “consciousness kind of distant” or a natural slow down of mental activity as I rest my head on the pillow – I used to be so alert even when I was collapsing with exhaustion and these days I can sense my mind disconnecting on its own even if I’m not thaaaat sleepy. So cool 🙂
Although there are these 2 positives, my 9th week has been a nightmare. Taking several hours to fall asleep, waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep, and lots of SC. Oh, and 2 nights ago I never fell asleep – got very very light sleep from 3:30 am to 5 am. Worst part was that I was so tired I couldn’t even enjoy the evening watching a movie or show, which is how I cope with these bad nights. I tried watching Friends but my eyes would not stay open, and I also would NOT fall asleep. True nightmare. I had gotten used to not having to do SC anymore so I was resistant and annoyed to have to do it again.
I miss being a normal sleeper so badly. Never knew how good I had it.I hope in 6 months we are all going to be reporting wonders here!June 18, 2019 at 6:48 pm #30199
Hi Borgesbi. I know what you mean about the mental fatigue. I got rid of that mostly when I started getting 5.0 hours sleep but after getting a couple nights of poor sleep now, it is back. It’s tough to concentrate when that happens as well as stay awake. I also know how tough it is to start SC again after you didn’t have to do it for awhile. One positive that mostly remains is my ability to fall asleep. I do some stretching exercises after I get into bed and then start concentrating on my breathing, counting every breath. If I lose track because my mind wanders, I just start over. I usually am asleep in 10 or 15 minutes now. Sometime I wake up shortly after I got to sleep but it never lasts long as I usually fall right back to sleep quickly. I expect bad nights to happen. I just wish I was at the point where I had a couple good nights followed by a bad night or two rather than a week of good nights followed by a week of bad nights. But, good sleep will come and when it does, I find my sleep anxiety decreases dramatically. I forget now, are you the one who took that course from the professor down in Virginia? VCU I think?June 19, 2019 at 12:06 am #30211
Steve, interesting – when I fall asleep and wake up just 10/15 mins into it, a strange conditioned arousal usually takes over and right there I know it will be a rough beginning of the night. The crazy part is that I actually have memories of the traumatic period I went through back in 2017 and experiencing my very first “insomniac nights” and that’s exactly what would happen. I would go to bed nervous (not because of sleep but because of personal stress), fall asleep and wake up shortly after in a violent jerk and feeling absolute panic from the stress of the day. It’s insane how years later, after all the stress has been removed, the body still remembers this and re-creates the experience. Does anyone else relates to this? It feels as if these processes have been learned by the brain and are deeply ingrained in there – no wonder it takes so long to un-do them. Yikes..
I was introduced to CBTI by Donn Posner (professor at Stanford) through his video on youtube. I got in touch with him and he referred me to a sleep specialist here in CO! I worked with her for 7 weeks but wasn’t happy with it.June 19, 2019 at 11:55 am #30227
Borgesbi – I remember my first night of insomnia. Well, at least the waking up part. It was about three weeks after my surgery and I was sleeping in bed. I never had any problems up until that point. All of a sudden, after about four hours of sleep, i just woke up and felt strange. From that point on, I never slept right again. I always wondered if the surgery did something to me physically that came to a head that night. All of the doctors tell me no, it was the anxiety that caused the insomnia but I still wonder. Doesn’t really matter I guess because if the surgery did do something to me, it can’t be undone. I have to try the CBT-i method.
Another poor sleep by the way. But I did get out of of bed to do SC but didn’t matter as I couldn’t get back to sleep. This rough patch has been going on for about four or five days now. Just have to keep to the process. I know better sleeps will come.
I see a poster in the forum is trying to dupe us and sell us light glasses to cure our insomnia. It’s obviously a scam. I wish Martin could delete posts like that. It’s bad enough we have to suffer the effects of insomnia without being made to suffer people who are just trying to con us.June 19, 2019 at 12:01 pm #30228
Well, another rough night. Just went face to face with my boss with a nice set of dark circles under my eyes. This all coming off of three of the most amazing nights in a row in last Thursday Friday and Saturday. I knew going into Sunday night as per usual it wasn’t going to be as easy heading back into the work week, but this has now carried over THREE nights in a row with no heavy sleep drive. I know some of you might get on me about not just staying up until the drive came, but when its 11:30pm and I’m still feeling pretty tired and I have to be up at 6am, sometimes I just literally cannot help getting into bed and taking my chances.
Sunday, Monday and Tuesday were all cases of this, with last night being the worst. I don’t know what it is or what happened. But again, 10:30, then 11pm, and no strong sleep drive came on. Finally around 11:30 I began feeling pretty tired, close to that unable to keep my eyes open point, but not the absolute exhausted head nodding sleep drive that always almost guarantees me a good night. I went in bed at 1130p, crashed around 12a, and woke at 5:45a. Of course as you all know, under 6 hours is pretty much a guaranteed zombie day for me.
I think something happened where I slept SO well those three nights in a row last week that it gave me that old weird anxious feeling of “well this can’t keep up now into the full work week, right?”. On top of that, I slept until 7:15am on Sunday which messed up my cycle and left me feeling pretty wide awake come Sunday night. I know this is a lot of rambling but I’m hoping you all followed. Having a rough day so far today. Just the usual case here with me. One step forward, two steps back, and zero sign of ever moving fully out of this.June 19, 2019 at 12:31 pm #30230
Thought my last post went through but I guess it didn’t. Hang in the Mac. You have the tools to get back on track soon. I know it’s rough having a bad night after having a string of good nights. And I know what you mean about not feeling that sleep drive. I hardly ever feel it and I could stay up all night and still have trouble feeling it. So, since I have to be up early as well, I go to bed anyway hoping I’ll get the sleep. You’ll be back on track soon. And keep using the tools and you may eventually get rid of the insomnia and become normal again. I know that is what’s really bothering you. Thinking you’ll have to do SR forever. Just hang in there. Better nights will come. Maybe we should invest in that pair of “light glasses” that poster told us about in the forum.
Wait a minute. I see my last post is awaiting moderation. You may not see it for awhile.June 19, 2019 at 12:51 pm #30231
Hope you’re joking about the “light glasses”, Steve. I don’t care what they say can help or can’t help, my thing is, if you have to start wearing special glasses as bedtime approaches, you’re only giving anxiety that much more of a chance to increase. I didn’t need special “glasses” for 32 years of my life to sleep. Now I do? No.
Thanks for your words though. I really appreciate your optimism for me. But at this point I’m almost completely immune to lines like “Hang in there” or “You’ll get back on track soon”. After 2.5+ years of this, you just have to respect that. What I do have are the tools to start sleeping better when I REALLY want to, yes, but the problem is just how long will I have to revert to them? Tonight for example, after 3 crummy nights previously, I have decided I will not enter my bedroom until I feel the sleep drive come on strong. Whether that’s at 12am or 12:30am, it doesn’t matter, I know its what I have to do. It might mean another tired day tomorrow, but at least it might help reset my sleep drive/cycle after whats been a pretty rough 3 days.