[hiker]

Hi Withers85, by anxiety disorder I am assuming you mean more than a stressful event you are dealing with at present, but rather a general sense of anxiety which persists regardless of how things are going right now at home, work, etc.

Are you seeing a therapist who has actually made this diagnosis? If not, could this be helpful?

There is no shame in using a pharmaceutical sleep aid to get over a temporary bout of insomnia, though best to explore this avenue with a professional.

Martin’s materials can help a lot toward approaching sleep without the sense of desperation that we can understandably fall into. Hard to think straight when we are exhausted, and so easy to attach to much importance on thoughts.

I hope you can stick with this website.

[hiker]

Hi Ryan, actually I think you have a lot of good insights into your sleep problem. Seems that you intellectually understand that your thoughts are sort of running the show. And no doubt just letting go is easier said than done.

When I find myself obsessing (which can take a while to realize sometimes, we can get so caught up), I do best when I can just observe the thoughts rather than trying to control them. This is true even when the thoughts are unpleasant (“I’ll never get over this” etc.) Watching my mind like this does not mean instant peace and sleep, but over time I have found it is a good way to sort of emotionally stay in shape.

A good example is Martin’s 6/30/21 email about a woman named Celia Gordon. Perhaps contacting his site will lead you to it.

Take care.

[hiker]

Hi Alex, it sounds like you are willing to work hard toward improvement. The goal we all have is to sleep well enough to be rested to get on with our lives. Certainly a worthy goal, but I think this goal can be more elusive than average.

With most things, the more we practice or the harder we work, the better we get, e.g. learning a musical instrument or doing aerobic exercise. But in some situations, trying harder might not always be the best route to go.

Baseball hitters sometimes try harder and harder and go into a slump, when they start feeling desperate and wondering if they will ever hit well again. I think sleep falls in this category as well.

Maybe the key is we start obsessing about it. Our thoughts are all about sleep. This mental rut is what Martin addresses. I think he is presenting not just a temporary fix, but a long-term shift in attitude toward sleep, a shift which I think can help in facing all types of adversity, including insomnia. And with this shift, sleep becomes just a natural physical state. (Maybe the ultimate is the natural way a baby just goes to sleep, without thinking about it.)

I know, easier said than done, but I think if you view Martin’s program as a shift in perspective, it will be the best way to go.

Take care, you are not alone.

[hiker]

Hi Snoozybear, it sounds like you are going through a really rough time.

I have had ups and downs with insomnia for many years (doesn’t mean you will, I had severe psychiatric problems). When I have had the best handle or attitude about insomnia is when I have not let it run my life.

I know that sounds simplistic, but it is true nonetheless. I have found that when I said I cannot plan anything because I might sleep poorly the night before –or several nights before–I would continue on a bad streak of insomnia. And when I would get in this rut, insomnia took on this all-powerful image. When actually it is just that —an image.

I have been able to pull out of this mindset when I let go and realize that maybe I will sleep poorly tonight. I hope I sleep well, but if I don’t, I have made it through the next day thousands of times, and somehow I will do it again. I’ll just do what I can. I can even drive if I am tired—-unless this actually means sleepy, and provided I can concentrate to drive safely. But other than driving, I will just try to wing it and do the best I can.

I know, easier said than done, but I have traveled this road for a long time and know where the bumpy spots are.

Finally, Martin’s program addresses how our thoughts can steer us all over the place, and how we can step back and observe them rather than letting them run our lives.

Take care, you are not alone in this.

[hiker]

Hi deedeebon, your post cuts right to the chase, the way insomnia can seem so powerful.

I have dealing with insomnia for 40+ years. Not every night, and I am guessing you have had good streaks in there, but obviously for you it is still hanging around. And I have to think you have gone through all the sleep hygiene and lots of sleep meds, maybe some sleep studies, and you have dealt with this or that life stress which of course would interfere with sleep for a while just on its own. And I am guessing that the insomnia is still around because well, it just is.

So hard to remember that sleep is just a natural process, that if we can just get out of the way and just let it happen, especially when you are hammered by bad sleep for several consecutive nights. I am sure I will forget this too, if I go on another bad run.

You know there is no slam dunk solution, but I will say that mindfulness has been a help. E.g. couple of free sites: mindfulnessnorthwest.com and palousemindfulness.com I know, it is all the rage these days, and some of the stuff sounds pretty out there, but you might want to give it a shot. Only thing is you have to practice, though not necessarily for a long time at any one session. There are actually physically observable changes in the brain on fMRI scans.

I think it is likely that Martin’s course would offer similar benefits in that it is really focused on our thoughts—-like the thought that insomnia is all-powerful and controls our lives. He has videos on this site as well, addressing exactly what you are talking about.

I hope you get some relief soon. I know it can be a real bear sometimes.

[hiker]

Hi Johniee, you write that “I feel trapped by my own thoughts.” I went through insomnia for a very long time (does not mean you will, at all). But it took me a lot longer to realize what you have already discovered.

As a Christian myself, I wondered if I was spiritually troubled, how could God let this happen, etc. I finally concluded that I don’t know. I think that is where faith, and perhaps more specifically trust come in.

Anyway, I do know that believing in God does not mean we do not avail ourselves of remedies beyond prayer. Some Christians think seeking out mental/emotional health remedies is a sign of little faith. You may hear this line of thought from believers who have not (yet) gone through some of the tough problems life can throw at us.

Martin’s course, as well as videos and other info on this site, is focused on what you describe—-that we can get swept up in our thoughts, so much so that we think our thoughts are all we are.

A similar avenue is mindfulness, which I know sounds like a fad, but actually it has been around for about 3,000 years. A couple of good and free sites: mindfulness northwest.com and palousemindfulness.com

Sometimes Christians and other religious people think mindfulness and meditation are contrary to their religion. If you explore it, I think you will find this is not the case at all.

Take care.

[hiker]

Hi Hanah, I have not taken the course, but I went through a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy prior to finding this site. I have looked at Martin’s materials and he is really on topic.

In terms of mental/emotional health, CBT is a relatively new concept, at least in the West. I wish I had heard of it earlier.

Anyway, it is an alternative to years of therapy, which not everyone needs, and as opposed to relying solely on sleep meds., which offer short term relief at best. What the community has discovered more and more is that our thoughts can really drive us, so much so that we can believe that we are our thoughts. That might sound weird, but it is easy to go down a rabbit hole and think there is no hope, and that this means there is no hope. Not so.

You wonder if maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is—-not perfection, but definitely better.

I am glad you found this site, a good source.

[hiker]

Hi katelynntaco, I think Martin’s materials would help. These include videos and ongoing emails, as well as the course.

Obviously your tough situation with a newborn is a recipe for insomnia, but as you point out, worrying about sleep can take on a life its own. The information on this site deals extensively with this problem—sleep anxiety.

I am glad you found this site, and I think you will find help here.

[hiker]

Hi Gil, if you have not done so already, I would check reputable websites like WebMD, Mayo Clinic to make sure your headaches are definitely migraines. Sometimes people use the term to describe bad headaches generally. Checking with a neurologist would be key.

I have come across a good migraine medication: generic name Sumatriptan, common brand name Imitrex. This is not to say you can just pop a pill: oftentimes life events can trigger migraines in the first place. And you can get nasty rebound headaches if you overuse. There are good reasons you can get it only with a prescription.

For me, it started with severe childhood trauma. Resolved that, but afterwards just worrying about whether I would get a headache could trigger one. Later I discovered that my neck posture is not so good, which leads to muscle strain, which hurts a lot more when it ascends to my head. Sometimes the med. does not work, usually meaning it is not a migraine. Still hurts, though. Just examples of how headaches start from even innocuous things.

As for scrolling the phone, I am going to guess that you get some relief realizing e.g. that you have answered all truly important texts and there is no traumatic news story in the last two hours. But that long term, the stimulation even if enjoyable gets in the way of true relaxation. Maybe the way a shot of whiskey can be relaxing short term, not so good for sleep.

[hiker]

Hi, Up all Nite, I am encouraged by your last sentence. You have checked out Martin’s program and now realize it is about putting it into practice.

Talking about insomnia, reading about it, watching videos, checking the various posts on this site—all these can be helpful. But as you say, from there it comes down to practice. Setting aside some time to do it, even when you don’t feel like it.

Practicing the CBT techniques is good. But this doesn’t mean you practice sleep itself. No doubt you have discovered that trying to sleep doesn’t work. Martin touches on this point throughout his videos.

I think you make another good point about stressful events leading to insomnia, then as the event subsides, the insomnia has taken on a life of its own. Sleep anxiety. Fair to say that just about all of us on this site can relate to this. Easier said than done–believe me, I know—but to the extent that you can accept that you cannot sleep at this moment, it can become more tolerable. This does not mean you are resigning yourself to a lifetime of insomnia.

Take care.

[hiker]

Hi, Sleepless in WV, it sounds like you are really going through the mill right now. I would think most of us would have situational insomnia going through so many traumatic experiences. I know that when I experienced severe trauma earlier in life, I could not have made it through without mental/emotional health treatment, any more than I could have healed on my own when I broke my leg completely in two.

I also strongly believe in prayer, but I don’t think God is the least bit put out when we seek such treatment. He does not expect us to just sort of pray our way out of it. A number of conservative Christian pastors have had serious mental health issues because they have thought that seeking help was a sign of weak faith. It isn’t.

Panic attacks are awful. Been there. There are some prescription meds which can help. This alone would be a reason to seek out a psychiatrist, i.e. an M.D. who is authorized to prescribe.

As for chronic insomnia (insomnia hanging around even after dealing with trauma), it can definitely take on a life of its own. I know from long experience that there is no one med. which cures it; if there were, people would be lined up for miles.

Not a snap cure or anything, but the best help I have gotten (after the mental health treatment for specific trauma) has been from practicing mindfulness. I know it is kind of a fad right now, but it has been around for about 3,000 years. I have been using it to deal with the Covid mess and political polarization you refer to. A couple of free websites below.

And I think Martin’s course is really focused on how our thoughts can work against us if we don’t realize it. As you point out, we can spend too much time in our heads. And not all social media is garbage, but a lot of it does smell pretty bad. Easy to go down a rabbit hole and think there is no hope anymore.

mindfulnessnorthwest.com
palousemindfulness.com

Also, I used to volunteer at the Crisis Line. It is a good resource. When I worked there, the phone system for some reason directed everybody to us here in Seattle. But we have a nationwide directory which can steer you to resources in your community.

You are not alone.

[hiker]

Hi Blackbird, my heart goes out to you re the long Covid.

This is just a guess, but I have heard of “long-haulers” being dismissed as malingerers, that actually you are not doing that badly and should just “get over it,” similar to people suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The closest I have come to experiencing anything like that is dealing with child abuse many years ago, and having to realize that most people who have not dealt with it cannot understand it. And that sometimes they can dismiss it as something you ought to just get over.

If I am guessing right here, maybe at least part of your current insomnia pattern stems from understandable disappointment or frustration or anger at how people react to you. From my own struggles with insomnia, I know that for me it gets worse if I find myself upset at other people’s attitudes and behavior. Hard to remember that we cannot control that.

I certainly hope that as scientists learn more about Covid, they can develop a cure for Long Covid in particular.

[hiker]

Hi Cookie/Rosemarie, sorry to hear about all the stress going on.

Not that any source of stress has to be “legitimate,” but divorce and Covid and GI issues are certainly understandable reasons for not sleeping. And once insomnia moves in, it can make itself at home regardless of external stresses. Sleep anxiety is a bear.

And as you have discovered, sleep meds are not a permanent solution. If they were, people would be lined up for miles at the pharmacy. And sleep hygiene, while a good thing, is not enough for those of us with big time, chronic insomnia.

So what is? With your motivation, maybe Martin’s course is the way for you.

Maybe another, or in addition to, is to think of other things in life where trying harder does not work. If you are a baseball fan, you know that skilled batters can go into a slump. They know they can hit, done it for years, now all of a sudden they can’t. And the more they ruminate about it, the worse it gets: omg, I have got to get a hit, this can’t go on, what if I get cut from the team, what am I going to do, etc. etc.?

Of course the key is to relax, but easier said than done, right?

Despite the overhype, trendy stuff you hear, mindfulness has helped me. And when I find that I am on another run of bad sleep–and worrying about it and of course continuing to sleep poorly—I eventually realize that I have gotten away from it. A couple of free sites: mindfulnessnorthwest.com and palousemindfulness.com You will have to scroll through and see which sections work for you.

You are not alone.

[hiker]

Hi, danamelinda, I don’t know the exact answer to your question. I would suggest exploring Martin’s website in detail; I am quite certain that he addresses this.

fwiw, I have sometimes been asleep for 7 or so hours but wake up unrefreshed, other times for 5 hours but wake up refreshed. On the other hand, my wife does not have sleep issues, but if she gets less than 8-9, she feels tired throughout the day. Go figure.

[hiker]

Hi, DigitatlZombie (great name!):

I got both doses and had no problems with nausea, insomnia, etc. I am 69 years old, My shoulder was a little sore for a few hours, not a big deal. (My minor arthritis is more of an issue, but that is not related to the vaccine.)

I have dealt with insomnia for a long time. It has gotten the better of me on occasion when I have had a run of poor sleep and it starts getting into my head. You know, anxiety about omg, am I ever going to sleep well again, etc. Easy to fall into when you are exhausted and your thoughts start going haywire.

And when I get into this mindset, I can get anxious about anything interfering with sleep. Name it: politics, family issues, money, ……and you can certainly add Covid vaccine issues in there.

True, some people don’t feel great for a couple days after the second dose. And if that happens to you, I am guessing you might not sleep great for a couple of nights. And if this should happen, try to notice if you are getting into the freak-out mindset described above.
When I do, I try to frame it like this:

1. “I’m having the thought that I am not going to sleep well tonight and maybe not for a long time, I cannot handle this.”

as opposed to

2. “I am not going to sleep well tonight and maybe not for a long time, I cannot handle this.”

I doubt that the vaccine will directly cause any insomnia. Anxiety about the vaccine doing so—or anxiety about anything—can definitely cause insomnia.

Just the other day, Martin put out an email about how we can easily obsess about sleep/insomnia. Suggest you contact him to get copied (sorry, I don’t have the tech know-how to forward, if that is even possible).

I admire your willingness to step up and get vaccinated. My brother-in-law likely would still be alive if more people in the community had taken more precautions.

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