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It’s common for cults to make sure inductees don’t get enough sleep. Ditto inhumane interrogation techniques, all designed to wear you down
But I don’t think this means that not sleeping well all the time means you will become bona fide mentally ill. Even if a lot of powerful (but false) thoughts are swirling around.
Call it what you will–“sleep deprivation,” “insomnia” or just being tired all the time…. it is a bummer.
Still, it is possible to make it out to be worse than it is. There is no established, peer-reviewed evidence that it causes dementia or any type of psychosis. No doubt it will get into your head and lead to all sorts of weird thoughts. I remember wondering what people were thinking about me, but that did not lead to a verifiable diagnosis of paranoia.
I don’t believe insomnia can lead to a nervous breakdown either. I actually had one of those many years ago, but the mental health professionals said that severe depression was the culprit. I am talking about way deeper depression than you get from not sleeping well.
I still run into a bad stretch of insomnia now and then, but have learned (for the most part) not to take my thoughts all that seriously.
Please know you are not alone in this. Insomnia is really tough, but sticking with this forum and Martin’s methods will help. And I hope you can gain some assurance that insomnia will not drive you out of your mind — even if it feels like that sometimes!
At the risk of repetition, I had a rough night last night. It is now late afternoon. How will I sleep tonight?
Of course I’d like to sleep better but no way to know for sure.But this is ain’t my first rodeo. Whatever happens, I can handle it.
Maybe the anxiety concerns whether you will sleep the following night i e sleep anxiety?
All I’ve come up with is acknowledging it, realizing I can’t control it, and knowing that I have made it through every sleep-deprived day so far.
Hi sleepyjinx, okay first off, I don’t think you’re jinxed!
I agree with the other responders that you can get through the bumps in the road. The only thing I can add is I don’t think you need fear going into psychosis after a bad stretch of insomnia. I dealt with insomnia and severe depression for many years. I had thoughts that maybe I would go “crazy” and seriously considered suicide. I also had feelings of paranoia and profound inadequacy.
While all that was quite unpleasant, it does not amount to a bona fide psychotic break, e.g. hearing voices, seeing people who aren’t there, etc. Feeling paranoid does not constitute clinical paranoia.
In short, you may feel strongly that you are losing your mind, but that’s the insomnia talking.
I agree there is a lot of nonsense on YouTube and other forums, and probably best to stay on this one for sound advice. I am confident Martin et al are sifting through and editing out anything off-base.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi, emschli, for starters it sounds like you’re making good progress. Even though you would like to sleep more hours to feel leas tired. Seems reasonable for sure, as long as it doesn’t turn into a “must have”
I hope you are also reading other posts to hammer home that you’re not alone, and also to read the follow up comments. For example the thread entitled:
“My nervous system will eventually let go, right?” which started June 16.
To the comments there I would add only that it’s hard to think straight and easy to catastrophize? when you’re tired.
Keep up the good work—-without working at it too much!Hi Benjamin R, I used Doxepin with some success for about a year or two, many years ago. I recall it left me very drowsy in the morning, but I didn’t care because I slept enough. And I was desperate for sleep.
But eventually it stopped working. I went through 15-20 different meds, and none lasted even that long.
I agree with Martin, and in fact if there were a surefire pill for insomnia (really surefire, not just Internet hype), people would be lined up for blocks, there would be well-publicized legislation to make it affordable, etc. i am 74, dealt with insomnia on a regular basis for 40 years. The pill in question does not exist.
When I have a setback, my go-to remedy is related to CBT, I believe. I might add that the setbacks are more likely to show up when I have slacked off mindfulness exercises.
I remind myself that trying harder to get to sleep and to stay asleep does not work. I try to pinpoint anything which might be going on in my life to create situational insomnia. Maybe that exchange with a difficult neighbor has left me angry, even though I logically thought the situation was resolved. Or worries about health, obsessing about political news, etc.
I end by acknowledging that of course I would prefer to get a good night’s sleep tonight. But if I don’t, this isn’t my first rodeo. I can handle this. And usually I am back to sleeping better within a few nights.
Take care.
HI LIghtray, I hope you are checking out other posts and also Martin’s emails / podcasts. The community includes all of this, not just specific replies to your post.
Trouble staying asleep is a common theme. Early morning awakening has been defined as a classic sign of major depression. This does not automatically mean you are depressed, but perhaps something to explore to find out yes or no.
If you find yourself depressed solely because you are having trouble sleeping, that would a result of insomnia, not a cause.
On the other hand, so what, right? The point is you can’t sleep. And I wish there was a simple answer……fwiw, when I have a bad streak, I try to figure that well, maybe I won’t sleep great tonight (okay, I hope I do), but if I don’t, I have been through this before.
One of those things in life where trying harder doesn’t help.
I hope you will sense you are not alone in this, and that things will veer toward the better.
“I’m not thinking about sleep so sleep just happens.”
Ain’t it the truth. And that being gentle with yourself is the key.
Maybe when your wired brain goes bonkers, you can let go of trying to make it stop. Rather just observe it, let it flail around. Like a balloon with the air released, zipping around and then eventually emptying out. In its own time.
Been there, I tried for years to fix it, as if it were a piece of furniture I could repair.
It is hard for anyone to get much sleep in a hospital, with noise and interruption.
Easier said than done but maybe just veg out, sleep or not, and let the medical professionals do their job till you can get home.
Odds are your sleep will improve with Martin’s course but it is not instant or mean you will never sleep poorly. Some nights are just not so good. It doesn’t mean you’re a failure or anything
Good luck Karima87
And when you don’t get great sleep every night try not to get discouraged. It doesn’t mean you’re a failure.
Overall it is likely you will see a lot of improvement.
Hi MCD89, so much for speculating about the future, right? Martin can clarify if need be, but I think it comes down to maybe you sleep well tonight and maybe you don’t. Sorry if that sounds callous, it’s not meant to be. My point is we can’t control whether we sleep well, beyond some routine steps to improve our chances, e.g. avoiding the double espresso at bedtime.
Thoughts definitely can drive insomnia, but we can’t control those either. If I try to shut out the thought that “omg, I haven’t slept well all week, this is it, I’m condemned to a life of exhaustion, I wish I were dead, etc.” I find the thought just gets stronger. I will add that it helps when I just watch the thought scurry through my mind without buying into it. Just because a thought is powerful doesn’t make it true.
I am guessing you agree this makes logical sense. I guess further that if we were always logical, we wouldn’t ever have trouble sleeping? Anyway, it seems we’re not all that logical much of the time.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi sleep, I think that is a really good insight–that even if sleep generally improves, that nobody sleeps great every night. Wired from TV, car trouble, or who knows why sometimes.
When it happens to me, I try to figure out why I didn’t sleep well but I don’t spend a lot of time on it. Just happens sometimes. Then I figure that I am more likely to feel overwhelmed or irritable today, maybe just observe that rather than get swept up in it.
And that I may well sleep better tonight, probably will, but if I don’t, I have been down this road before. Not ideal, but I can handle it.
Hi LindaBates, best to consult with a pharmacist on meds. Fwiw, my wife takes it for bone density. You were told it could help with insomnia? Perhaps that is a side benefit? But one thing for sure is there is no guaranteed long term sleep med. If there were, you would see people lined up for miles / kilometers.
Another option might be consulting with a pharmacist to see what time of day / evening it’s best to take medication.
Definitely check out the emails and podcast library for more details.
Take care, you are not alone. It can seem that way when you’re blitzed with insomnia and it feels like no one around you understands. Again: you are not alone.
Hi Emilynnp, if I hear you correctly, your brain seems like it won’t turn off so you can sleep. And the more you focus on it, the more active it gets.
I wish there was a way to turn off the brain at night, much like you turn off the lights in your bedroom. But it seems wired to keep going. I suppose it is good that the brain is active in case something happens, like a sudden fire hazard. But for the most part, it just seems to just get in the way of a good night’s sleep.
As you go through the emails and read various posts, you will see that lots of people go through this. Some people decide to just get up and read or do something else they enjoy–can’t sleep anyway, so why not? Others decide to just lay there and acknowledge there is a struggle going on, and decide to stop struggling. Who knows with our brains, it’s a computer and we all know computers can get wacky.
Personally, when my mind is swirling, I try to watch the thoughts zipping through my mind, and to label them as just thoughts. I have discovered that my defenses seem to be down at night, so it’s then I am most liable to get God knows what thoughts popping through there. Lots of times they repeat, for no discernible reason. Nothing to make note of on a to-do list for the next day, just old useless junk which I’d rather not hash over again, but here it comes again, and again.
I have abandoned the idea of ever controlling my mind not to think about whatever thought pops in there. Instead, I just let it drift through. For example, what about the time a work colleague chewed me out for not being more assertive on a court case we were working on. And it turns out she was right. I label the thought:
—I’m having the thought that I blew that case, that I should have been more assertive and done a better job. I’m having the thought that I was so worthless, I am worthless now, what a mess I have made with that, with my whole life……
Labeling the thought, as above, is vastly different than buying into the thought, e.g. that it must be true, I am worthless etc.
Maybe your thoughts are more worrying about what could happen in the future, as opposed to ruminating about the past. But I think the same analysis applies. We tend to take thoughts too seriously, like they are the gospel truth, when often they are just junk floating through our heads.
I hope you stick with the forum and can pick up ideas from lots of people. We might have different approaches, but we all know what insomnia is like, that is for sure. You are not alone.
