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Hi jesssrouji, sounds like you are in a tough spot right now.
I think it comes down to being aware of thoughts. There is no stopping them: they just pop into your head. Especially when the big event is coming up—getting ready to sleep, here come the thoughts about sleep. To the extent you can, just watch your thoughts drifting or whizzing through your mind. Like clouds moving through the sky.
And try not to take thoughts too seriously. They can be weird and quite inaccurate. Especially if you haven’t slept well, all sorts of thoughts can pop into your head out of nowhere.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi Cas80, I am not sure if you are anxious about sleeping less hours some nights, or if you are not as rested some mornings.
If it is just about less hours, it’s just that we don’t need as much rest some nights. If it is about not being as rested, I don’t think we can expect to feel super-rested every morning, at least not after age 30 or so? And if it starts to happen fairly often, it could be that worrying about it is the problem.
Yeah, but how do you just not worry? And here is where CBT comes into play, when we acknowledge thoughts as just thoughts, not necessarily something we have to buy into. Noting that “I am having the thought that I will not get over this” is much different from “I will not get over this.”
I hope you feel rested more often.
Hi Jacob, I can relate to your sleep anxiety.
Martin put out a really good email a few days ago, entitled “fear of insomnia,” which covers what you are going through.
As for the mechanics of when to sleep, how long to stay in bed, etc., check out this website for Martin’s tips. (I don’t work for him, by the way!)
Your central question—how to get where you “don’t care”…..when you also want “more certainty” about sleep. I dealt with this for many years before I learned about stepping back and noting my anxious thoughts, instead of getting completely absorbed in them. Not that it works all the time: it is natural to want to wake up rested, and it is disappointing when that doesn’t happen. But for the most part, when I wake up early, I note that I am anxious about waking up early, and note that I am worried I won’t get back to sleep.
There is a huge difference between:
1. “Insomnia is ruining my life”; and
2. “I’m having the thought that insomnia is ruining my life.”
I do not try to get into the mode of not caring whether I get back to sleep. Because to be honest with myself, I do care. Instead, I acknowledge that I am having thoughts about sleep, that I would prefer to get back to sleep. But that if I don’t, I can make it through the next moment. Not fun, but I have done it before. And I cannot force myself to sleep: trying harder works for most stuff in life, but not here.
All of this is about mindfulness, which I know is sort of a fad these days. But it has been around for 3,000 years or so. You might want to check it out, eg. palousemindfulness.com
Hang in there, Jacob. You are not alone in this.
Hi MommyE18,
I am not a mommy, but if I may, perhaps what you are describing is any situation in which you really want to do well, and you want the energy to do well, and that means sleeping now. And so it becomes imperative to sleep now.
Unfortunately this is one area where trying harder does not help. Maybe it comes down to just doing the best you can. That okay, you’re tired, but you love your baby and so you’ll just do what you are able to do right now.
I find that when I have a rough bout of insomnia, underneath it all is a feeling of having requirements. A good night’s sleep becomes not just something I would like, but something I have to have or everything will fall apart, that if I am tired I will be a lousy mother, and I have to be a perfect mother.
I also find that when I am tired, I am more likely to get into this mindset. It helps when I can remember it is the insomnia talking, I am a little scattered, thoughts racing all over…..and eventually I recall that wait, I am tired right now, I don’t have to lay such huge expectations on my shoulders, I’ll just do the best I can.
No magic formula…..it could help to check out Martin’s videos, emails, etc. which are available on this site even if you don’t sign up for CBT course, though maybe that is something you would like to explore also?
You are not alone in this. Take care..
Hi Cas80, I can relate to what you are saying, and I’ll bet a lot of people can.
When the type of fear you describe—I slept great last night, but what about tonight…and the night after that?!—when I find that sort of washing over me, sometimes I freak out a bit, but more and more I just realize that, ‘You know what? I might not sleep well tonight, I hope I do, but if I don’t, I can deal with it.’
I also try to step back and watch my mind, usually via slowing down, listening to background sounds, what I am touching, etc. in other words, whatever it takes to be right here in the present moment. Then I can see the thoughts drifting through. There is a big difference between:
1. “I might not sleep well tonight, the insomnia could come back, I can’t handle this;”
and
2. “I’m having the thought that I might not sleep well tonight, I’m having the thought that the insomnia could back, I’m having the thought that I can’t handle this.”That might sound silly or simplistic if you skim over it, but if you can slow down, I think you will find it is not.
I dealt with insomnia off and on for many years. I am not saying you will; I had huge emotional trauma in childhood. The reason I bring it up is that I sort of chugged through the many days when I was tired. I would acknowledge it, okay, I’m tired, and just do the best I could. Just trying to ease up on myself a bit on those days. Knowing that actually I cannot totally control ovewhether I sleep well tonight.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi tennislover, it really does come down to attitude toward insomnia. Suggest check out Martin’s podcast.
True, it is hard to believe this when we are hammered from not sleeping well night after night. To the extent you can, try not to take thoughts too seriously. I know when I have had a rough patch, I can get thoughts popping into my head like “I’ll never get over this,” my life is ruined”etc. And then I can tend to let those thoughts take over.
Eventually I remember the huge difference between:
1. “My life is ruined”; and
2. “I’m having the thought that my life is ruined”Hi Mitch 17, this is my second attempt to reply. If you should get a reply which ends mid-sentence, I must have hit the wrong key or something.
Anyway, it sounds like you are working hard toward sleeping better. The techniques sound good, as long as you can remember that we can’t accomplish sleep the way we can a lot of things by working harder.
Re what to do when you wake up early, it sounds like you are doing Martin’s course, so I would consult with him directly. I can say that when I wake up early, I just get up. Otherwise my bed turns into a battleground.
Re your doing mindfulness, that has been the most successful for me, too. No guarantee every night, of course…..I view it the same way I do in practicing guitar: it comes down to doing it, even when it seems like no progress. Doing it instead of just reading about it or talking about it or watching videos about it.
Seems like you are on the right track, even though I know it can be a weird road with lots of twists.
Hi Tanguera44, I think you are right on the money when you say that anxiety about sleep is a big part of it. It took me quite a while to figure that out.
And even after figuring it out, it hasn’t meant I sleep great every night.
I will look up “havening” as you suggest.
I will think I will also consciously consider whether worrying about sleep helps me sleep better. Of course I know the answer is no. But maybe it helps to look at the anxiety eye-to-eye and ask, “So how exactly are you going to help me sleep?” Anxiety has to admit that well, I won’t, I will just keep you spinning.
Hi Jim Rainy, in response to your question about “what if you can’t sleep after that day again..”
Actually, my response is not changed. When I go several nights without adequate sleep, I find it is usually because I am starting to obsess about it. When I can let go and just say, ‘I would rather get a good night’s sleep tonight, but if I don’t, I can deal with it, done it before’ I generally do get a good sleep.
I used to think of insomnia as a problem to solve. No doubt it can be problematic, being tired a lot. But I have found that trying to solve it does not work in the long run.
You sound like a hard worker, and that attitude usually leads to success in a job or career. I think insomnia is different: if we try to solve it, it sort of hangs around. Maybe this is especially hard for Americans like me (us?) to accept: we have a “can do” attitude which works well in a lot of ways; here, not so much.
Hi ak, I can relate to the anxiety about sleeping. Seems like it can pop up anytime, even after sleeping well for a while.
It popped up for me last night, actually. By 3:15 a.m., that was it, no more sleep, so I just got up. And okay, I will be tired today. Done it before.
The trick for me is to not assume that because I sleep poorly for a night, or several nights, that this means I’m sort of sliding into a lifetime of exhaustion. And I know it is easy to slide into that line of thinking when tired. I try to remember they are just thoughts, and I don’t automatically buy into whatever pops into my head. Especially when I am tired and inclined to view a setback as a lifetime catastrophe.
I totally get that it is easier said than done. But there is a huge difference in “I’m having the thought that I will not sleep well tonight,” and “I will not sleep well tonight.”
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi Flying Fish, I am wondering if you have not had responses because the “headline” of your post says you are not tired, i.e. so what’s the problem.
Anyway, I am sort of guessing that when you say “I’m not tired” you mean “I’m not sleepy.” And that you want to sleep but you are too hyped up, i.e. not tired.
I have never dealt with the challenge of a new baby. So I can only guess that especially with a first baby, that a new mother would worry, and get hyper-vigilant to try to combat anything which might happen, real or perceived.
I can say I know about hyper-vigilance from other causes, and I lived for many years very tired but not sleepy, and yes, it does affect how well you manage (not that you will for many years, I had to deal with severe childhood trauma buried deep, etc etc.).
But it got better for me, so I think it can for you, too. The biggest shift for me was finally learning that my thoughts are what go through my mind whenever they feel like it, and that I do not have to buy into them. I used to think that ‘I am my thoughts.’
Besides therapy because of my situation, I found mindfulness to be a big help. I know it is a fad at present, but it goes back centuries (suggest palousemindfulness.com to see if it speaks to you). And Martin stresses this a lot: cognitive behavior therapy really explores how thoughts and how much we buy into them can affect how we live.
Hang in there, and I am glad you reached out on this site.
Hi, Seps26, man, can I relate to what you are saying. I dealt with insomnia for 40+ years (does not mean you will, I had major unresolved childhood trauma etc.), and I used to envision insomnia as a powerful giant, and little me with no chance.
You mention depression. That will contribute to insomnia bigtime. Situational depression solely because you can’t sleep is one thing; major clinical depression is another. If there is any possibility of the latter, mental health treatment could help. This can involve antidepressants which can help with sleep—although no pill will ensure good sleep indefinitely. If it did, you would see a mile-long line at the pharmacy.
Suggest you keep exploring this website. Martin has a number of videos and emails which address various issues. One in particular which might fit your situation: our attitude about sleep. CBT can address this.
Do we have the attitude that sleep as a natural process, as in the body eventually gets hungry, so you eat; the body eventually gets tired, so you sleep. Or do we try to control it and freak out when sleep does not come. (one distinction: to resolve hunger, you have to do something, i.e. get something to eat and eat it; re sleep, the body just sleeps if we can get out of the way)
Finally, the huge difference between observing thoughts or living in them: “I am having the thought that I cannot sleep and my life is ruined,” or “I cannot sleep and my life is ruined.”
Take care. Easier said than done, but try to give yourself a break. It’s a tough struggle. It is really easy to go down the rabbit hole of despair when we can’t sleep. But you are not alone, and you are not—not—sentenced to a lifetime of insomnia.
Hi wynmar, I have been down what sounds like a similar road. The “labored with lots of snoring” could be sleep apnea, which the sleep study will determine one way or other. If it is, a CPAP machine (they will explain) will help a lot.
If it turns out that is not apnea—or apnea but also other factors—then you move to things like meds. The meds are temporary fixes and it is best to consult with a doc or pharmacist. The latter know the most about side effects, etc, but some docs are good at this, and you need a doc to get Rx.
I suggest one step at a time, first the sleep study. If it does turn out there are other issues, Martin’s course is a good way to explore attitudes about sleep, especially how to avoid letting insomnia get into your head. This can be hard to remember when you feel scrambled from fatigue…..and stick with this forum, if only to see that you are not alone.
This does not have to be a lifelong trauma or anything.
Take care.
Hi there, not sure if your post got chopped off or what, but it sounds like you have understandable reasons for not sleeping right now. Not that you need to find a reason, but I can see where a mom who is juggling tech world and full-time with two kids could translate into situational insomnia. I hope as we eventually get past covid, things will ease up for you.
Maybe at this stage just sticking with this forum could help show you are not alone in this. Martin has a number of helpful videos and you can get emails from him, even without taking the course. Might be a good place to start.
Hi Nickey, it sounds like you are really going through the mill right now. And insomnia can feed itself to where we start panicking about it. Totally understandable–and also counterproductive, which I am guessing you know logically. But who can stay logical?
Maybe one way would be to see if you can preface your thoughts within an observation. Instead of “if I don’t sleep I am going to go out of my mind” rather: “I’m having the thought that if I don’t sleep I am going to go out of my mind.” This is all about mindfulness, which is treated superficially as a fad, but also has been around for centuries. A couple of free websites: mindfulness.northwest.com and palousemindfulness.com
Martin’s emails are a really good source, which may lead you to consider his course, which emphasizes, among other topics, our attitudes toward sleep.
Take care, you are not alone.
