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Hi hunter47,
I hope she will consider looking over this website. She will discover she is not alone, and Martin has some good videos to check out. This includes his description of his CBT course.
Re drugs and side effects, it is best to check with a medical professional—especially pharmacists. Many physicians, even sleep medicine docs, just don’t know as much in this area. This is what pharmacists study and do all the time. People do experience different side effects, though over many years mine were not major.
There is no surefire drug cure for insomnia. If there were, we’d be lined up for miles to get it. All you can hope for is some temporary relief, without taking it so often you build up a resistance.
>>>>> “At her wit’s end” That describes very well what millions of us have gone through. And unfortunately, getting into the wit’s end rabbit hole makes it worse. Anxiety about sleep is understandable; it is also, in my opinion, the main reason the insomnia persists.
The following is not always easy to pull off, but it does at least change one’s attitude toward insomnia, even if it doesn’t guarantee a great sleep every night…..it is about our thoughts.
As an example, it turns out I did not sleep all that well last night. Beats me why not, just didn’t. And before I realized what I was up to, I started the old, familiar ruminating about why didn’t I sleep well, what if I don’t tonight and the night after that, and I wonder if this means I am going to have a huge relapse. And I am so sick of this, my life is veering sideways again, what’s the use. Etc. etc. etc.
And when I catch myself deep in this junk (and sometimes it takes a while to catch myself), I remember not to take my thoughts all that seriously. Especially when I haven’t slept well, all sorts of weird sh-t goes flying through my head. One analogy I use is that my thoughts are on twigs or branches that are floating down the river. I can just watch them drift by, without jumping into the river.
This is a standard type of analogy that pops up in discussions about mindfulness, which I have found works better with practice. Actually doing it, not just reading or talking about it. A couple of good, free websites (and I don’t work for either outfit): palousemindfulness.com and mindfulnessnorthwest.com
Please tell her a lot of people care about what she is going through. And it does not have to be a hopeless dead end at all, even though it can definitely seem that way when you’re exhausted.
Hi Chloe, I second the responses you have been getting.
I also have been dealing with insomnia for many years. If you can stick with the sleep hygiene and Martin’s suggestions, you will see some improvement.
My only caution is that this does not mean you will sleep wonderfully every night. For example, even though I have had a good run for several weeks, I have not slept well the last three nights. Maybe it’s the pandemic, which never goes away for any of us; or worrying about political gridlock, polarization; or maybe….who knows, it just happens.
And it can sometimes feel like oh no, here we go again, I’ll never get over this, I wish I was dead, etc etc. until I realize that it is the typical scattered, morose thinking that pops into my head when I haven’t been sleeping well. And I remember that trying extra hard to sleep and freaking out if I don’t pull if off–well, you know how that goes.
Maybe my go-to guide when I am in a sleep rut is to realize that all sorts of weird, dark thoughts are going through my head. And I can just watch them pass by without buying into them.
And sure, I hope I sleep better tonight. But if I don’t, I have handled the next day many times before and always got through, and it doesn’t mean I will have trouble sleeping all the time. The more i can let go of obsessing over sleep, the better off (I know, seems impossible not to obsess when you’re so exhausted, but that’s just a thought passing through).
I am not sure how to answer. I can say only that in my experience of “early morning insomnia” I have found it best to just get up rather than trying again and again to get back to sleep. Trying over and over can turn your bed into a battleground rather than a place of true rest.
Again, only in my experience, I also have found I can get up early, start yawning within a few minutes—but then I am wide awake once I get back into bed, because my anxiety about whether I’ll get back to sleep kicks in, so of course I can’t sleep.
It might be helpful to well, assume you will wake up in the middle of the night (suggest not checking the clock). And then you realize you are still tired, so you go back to bed. I know, easier said than done, but instead of thinking, omg, I have got to get back to sleep!, just say to yourself: you know what, I would rather get back to sleep, but if I don’t, I’ve been here before, it doesn’t mean the day has to be a disaster.
And when you still have some nights when you can’t get back to sleep, it’s not “oh no, this is back, it’s going to keep happening!, instead: what are you gonna do, nobody sleeps great every night.
If my advice sounds kind of breezy, it’s not intended to be. Just that I freaked out about not sleeping for the longest time, it doesn’t work and I would rather you don’t go down that road, too.
Hi Joanne, that is a tough spot to be in, i.e. dreading the night. I am guessing that logically or intellectually you realize that anxiety about sleep means you go around in circles: I didn’t sleep well last night, in fact for the last week or longer, and what if this keeps going, how am I going to live, I don’t want to live if this is my life from here on out, etc.
And if you have been reading a number of posts here, you have discovered that there are millions of us.
When I get in that nasty circle–dreading the night—I (eventually!) remind myself that my thoughts are going haywire, and I don’t take them as gospel, instead just noticing that I am feeling irritable, or anxious, or even despairing right now. And acknowledging that “I’m tired.”
Not “I’m tired and will be the rest of my life,” or “I’m tired and if only I could sleep, but I can’t and I’m a failure,” just “I’m tired.”I would suggest reading Martin’s responses to posts and also his videos. And while there is a lot of overblown hype about mindfulness, it is not totally just hype. E.g. palousemindfulness.com; mindfulnessnorthwest.com are two legit–and free—sites you might want to check out.
You are not alone with this.
I will not claim to have a “one size fits all” solution. All I can say is I had insomnia for a long time, too (and still do, at times, but nobody sleeps great every night).
I can relate to not knowing “how much more I can handle.” It is easy to slide into a rabbit hole and see no way out. I think it is called depressive rumination.
Anyway, I did have a breakdown and checked myself into a psychiatric hospital, where I met many other normal people who were not “loony,” most of whom were having trouble sleeping. My alternative was suicide, or at least that’s the way I saw it.
I am not saying this is the path for you, but a professional diagnosis might be helpful. I can say for sure that staying alone with this and getting more desperate is not a good path.
You are not alone: there are tens of millions of people who slept poorly last night, and many millions who are chronically exhausted, feeling they have nowhere to go. Suggest that you stick with this forum—and definitely check out what Martin is saying.
Take care, my friend.
Your post really resonates with me, Edgar. I too have been dealing with insomnia for a long time.
I suspect you already know all the sleep hygiene stuff, and that the V and beer aren’t the ultimate answer. And that there is no magic formula.
I do think CBT as described on this site is worth a serious shot. While it is not a magical cure either, just learning how thoughts can worm their way into the whole sleep issue is valuable information. Probably the biggest thing I have learned is not to put a whole lot of stock in our thoughts—especially when tired. All sorts of weird sh– can start flying through your brain and lead to some dark rabbit holes.
Actually I have found living out many days of fatigue has given me a tool, which is this: you know what, if I don’t get much sleep tonight, I know I can still make it through the day. Sure I’d rather get back to sleep right now, but if I don’t, I can make it. Done it before. (Often this leads to falling back to sleep, but you can’t sort of recite it with that in mind.)
Take care.
Hi Virgie, I have had sleep problems for many years. This does not mean you will (I had huge emotional issues, etc.). I mention it only because I have learned some coping mechanisms. So while I don’t sleep great every night, things do get better.
—-As best you can, try not to see it as a “fight” against insomnia. Trying harder, giving it all you’ve got can help us succeed in many areas, but not here.
—-Try not to put too much stock in your thoughts. When we are tired, all sort of weird thoughts can pop into your head.
—-I know mindfulness meditation is all the rage, and there are some exaggerated claims. But I have found it helpful. A couple of free websites: palousemindfulness.com / mindfulness northwest.com (oops, they might be .org)
—-I hope you stick with Martin’s website, he has some good observations on all of this.
Hi bikash, I am a 69 year old male in the USA. I started having sleep problems about 40 years ago. It has continued for many years. I also tried all sorts of medications, yoga, and other things, with limited success.
If there was a method which guaranteed good sleep–a certain medication or whatever–you would see people lined up for miles/kilometers, waiting to get it. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This does not mean that all is hopeless. I encourage you to stay with this website.
You write that “I can’t fall asleep properly.” But I don’t think sleep is something we can acquire by doing it “properly” or working harder at it or getting more skilled at it.
To learn a new skill, like learning a musical instrument or how to build a house or repair a computer, we have to learn specific tasks, and then practice them repeatedly. Working hard, devoting our time, not giving up when things are difficult to learn will help us succeed in learning this new skill.
But sleep is not like this. It is more like a natural condition which simply comes to us. I think we have trouble with sleep when we try to grab it and keep it and dominate it, almost like trying to grab the wind.
This might sound weird, but I also have dealt with insomnia for a long time. And I am convinced that working harder is not the answer. Again, I encourage you to stay with this website. Martin will not give you a magic formula because there isn’t one, but he has good advice on changing our perceptions about sleep.
Hi, #12, I think what you are describing is an actual, tangible cause for insomnia (construction noise), then intellectually understanding the cause has passed (construction completed), but somehow something in the brain isn’t getting the message (hey, no more noise; you can sleep now, okay?).
It might sound simplistic, but I think you are showing some awareness of the problem, and that just accepting where you are right now is a start. With chronic fatigue, it would be easy to fall into a mindset of “this is a disaster, look at all I’ve got to do this week, how am I going to make it, my work/school performance is going to suffer, I’m going to get fired/flunk out….” and on and on.
Instead, you have been able to remember how this started, and that somehow some part of your brain hasn’t gotten the message. And I hope you realize this is a perfectly normal response, that it can take time to settle down after chronic stress, whether it’s construction noise, stress at work, financial worries, that even when they have passed, okay, I am still a little wound up about that even though it’s over, but this will pass, too. Rather than, “what’s wrong with me, the noise has stopped, why can’t I sleep now, other people seem to be sleeping okay….”
Not to get too analytical here, but I would think that the construction noise could make you very angry. Maybe the noise was inevitable–e.g. trucks and machinery make noise–but still, it is maddening when it jolts you awake day after day. And just acknowledging that anger is maybe part of the process.
Hi Wayne, I can’t speak to any alcohol withdrawal issues, but I am still confident alcohol is not a factor at this point. As you probably know, intoxication gets in the way of good sleep, but you have been sober for months.
Re natural sleep aids, I did not find any OTC meds which worked. I think some might for short-term insomnia, but that is about it. As for Rx level, the best bet for finding a knowledgeable doc is a sleep medicine specialist. Pharmacists get more specific training on the effects of various meds. And a number of meds do have side effects. Many are antidepressants, and a particular form of insomnia–chronic early morning awakening–is a classic symptom of depression.
Over the long term, though, there is unfortunately no sleep med. which is a guarantee. If there were, you would see blocks-long lines at doc’s offices to get it. Check out Martin’s discussions about the emotional blocks we put up when it comes to sleep, e.g. trying too hard to sleep—in fact, trying at all.
Take care, and know you are not alone in this.
Hi markhollis, it sounds like you have been checking in with Martin, and you might want to consult with him further on sleep hygiene and CBT-1 (no, I am not getting a commission!)
I have had insomnia issues for 40+ years. Lots of complicated reasons, which do not mean, at all, that you will go 40 years, too. I mention it only because I have been where it sounds like you are. Unfortunately it took me a long time to learn.
Anyway, I just want to address your concerns about neurological damage and people’s uncaring attitude.
I am not medically trained. However, over the years I have consulted with neurologists, sleep docs, had MRIs etc. I have learned that you can develop neural pathways which can lead to your brain sending weird messages. The most extreme is phantom limb syndrome, i.e. amputees who feel pain in a limb which is no longer there. The pain (including the psychological pain of insomnia) is real; you’re not making it up. But actual neurological damage? No. If you are interested further, check out unlearnyourpain.com by Howard Schubiner, M.D.
As for uncaring attitudes, I think two things come into play. I have found that even with all I know, a string of poor sleep nights, or even a single night, can really mess with my head. I can feel sort of paranoid or uncertain, wishing I were dead, irritable over anything, etc. And it can seem like nobody cares. Invariably I have concluded afterwards that it’s the insomnia talking.
And sometimes people indeed are uncaring. All you can do is choose how you are going to react to it. And usually after a while, I find it’s no so much that they don’t care. Rather, they just don’t understand—although they might think they do, because everybody sleeps poorly sometime. As you know, chronic insomnia is a whole different ballgame. Maybe it’s the equivalent of yours truly, being a man, can never fully comprehend what it’s like to be pregnant.
It might feel like you are resigned to a lifetime of chronic insomnia and misery. You’re not.
Hi SkibearCO: About having a relapse into insomnia, I have found I can do better if I can not make a big deal about it. It is natural to get into a mindset that I am improving, therefore I will continue to improve every night, and I will sleep well from now on.
Unfortunately our brains do get swirled with stuff like the chaos in our country. And sometimes I sleep poorly and can’t put my finger on why for that particular night. Just happens.
I understand this can sound passive, that there must be something you can do to solve this once and for all. But I have found sleep is one of those things you don’t get better at by trying harder. Instead, I think it is more like….”I didn’t sleep well last night, that’s disappointing, (maybe spend a little time wondering if there is a specific reason, e.g. watched the late news and it had an especially disturbing story). Maybe I will sleep better tonight, we’ll see.” (rather than I WILL or I HAVE GOT TO sleep better tonight.
I have found that laying awake in bed almost guarantees I will not get back to sleep. And trying to relax hasn’t worked all that well, either.
Can you think of a time when you have felt relaxed? Not because I tried, you just felt relaxed. How about a time when you treated yourself well, or when you gave yourself a break, when you stopped demanding so much of yourself? Here is one that has been challenging for me: can you think of a time when you just stopped trying to figure everything out?
I have gone back and forth with insomnia for a lot of years (for a lot of reasons not important right now–it doesn’t mean you will, too). And I have tried to think my way to solutions, e.g. as a lawyer. But all that thinking and analyzing really hasn’t helped me when it comes to sleep. Maybe it sounds like I am giving up, but I seem to sleep better when I realize there is only so much I can do about it. That if I don’t sleep well tonight, well, I’d like to but I have made it through many days on poor sleep…..and then not infrequently I sleep better.
I know a lot more about insomnia than I wish I knew! I can say that I have found Martin’s videos to be a concise summary of the main issues most of us deal with.
Does your schedule allow you to go to bed earlier, so that you will get enough sleep by 3:30 am when you wake up? Another tip could be not to check the clock to confirm, which might in turn reaffirm that this is what you do, leading to a mindset of this is the way it has been, the way it is, the way it will always be……I think that would be part of the “sleep hygiene” answer.
But I have had early morning awakening for a long time, and the above has not been enough for me. An additional help some of the time has been when I can go to bed and acknowledge that OK, it seems that I wake up in the middle of the night. So if it happens tonight, I do not have to be automatically disappointed or anxious about it. It could be that if I get up and stretch a bit or read something which is sort of interesting but not a page-turner, that I will go back to bed and back to sleep. Or maybe I won’t and I’ll just get up. And I’ll get tired later and acknowledge that ideally I would have gotten back to sleep.
And the next night, the same thing. And if I did not sleep well the previous night, well, maybe I will sleep better tonight. Or maybe I won’t.
If this sounds fatalistic, well, I guess it could sound that way. But it is rather an approach to something which ultimately just happens, where trying harder or worrying about it does not help. I haven’t always remembered all this when I have had a bad run of poor sleep–and it can get harder to remember when your mind is scrambled from fatigue. But it is true.
Hi Jennifer, I can definitely relate to your story. I have been dealing with insomnia on a consistent basis for 40+ years. Tried, let’s see….sleep studies, CPAP, 20+ Rx antidepressants /sleep meds, psychotherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, sleep restriction, continued good sleep hygiene, etc etc. And I do best when I just accept it: “Okay, I’m tired, I’ll just do the best I can.”
So it is encouraging that someone like you, who has travelled a similar long road, got help from Martin’s course.
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Hi Martin, I am sure you can understand why I am skeptical that your course will help me, though I must say Jennifer’s account is impressive. My wife is very sympathetic but understandably not enthusiastic about my spending yet more money to find a cure which has seemed non-existent.Many people offer a “money back guarantee” if a product doesn’t work. But maybe you mean it. You do offer a free seminar and work hard to respond on the forum. I do want to believe your course can help.
