Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi otilona, it sounds like you are familiar with the concept of problem-solving mind as Martin describes in Week 1. And that it’s a hindrance when it comes to sleep.
I am hoping you can slow down a bit, to the point where you can step back and watch your mind. You write that you have trained it to think that sleeping is bad. Wrong, but instead of trying to argue with your mind about it, is it possible you can simply note the point and just say to yourself, wow, when you can’t sleep, who knows what your mind will come up with. The thoughts get so powerful, they make me think they must be true—even though they’re not.
Hi Dijimena, I am guessing that you have been adjusting your meds because you haven’t found anything which works consistently without side effects.
I tried doing this for many years without consistent success. I would find something which would work for a while, sometimes. But invariably I would build up a resistance to it. If such a med. combo exists, I think we would have heard.
As far as weaning off, I strongly recommend consulting with pharmacists, who can tell you about the “half-life” of certain medications, and whether you need to taper off rather than stopping suddenly. Be sure to tell them of any other meds you might be taking.
I don’t know if your meds have included anti-depressants. If you do have a depression diagnosis, it can be important to follow up with this. Early morning awakening can be an indicator of depression, but you would want to follow up with a mental health professional. Such meds can help with depression, but they can carry their own side effects and don’t guarantee restful sleep over the long term. Still worth taking in some cases.
Also, I am assuming that sleep apnea is not a factor in your insomnia? This is one aspect of sleep medicine which Western doctors do know about. A sleep medicine physician can set up a sleep study to see if apnea is contributing to your sleep disturbance.
I hope you stay with this site. Lots of good info here, and a steady reminder you are not alone in this.
Hi otilona, it is hard to write what i know to be true without sounding simplistic.
Instead of “trying to figure out how helpful the course is” how about just doing it? And when your problem solving mind kicks in and wants get to figuring out everything, just sitting back and watching it.
Our minds are really good at making sure we don’t run out of gas/petrol, but I think you will find it spinning around, pretty much uselessly, at trying to figure out how to sleep.
Hi otilona, I wish I had the magic words to make you feel better. I am thinking here also of your previous post, in which you alluded to your insomnia experience being the worst ever. At least that is the impression I got.
I do remember getting lost in rabbit holes of despair–including the thought that no one else has been here before, or at least not to this degree. I think the official clinical term is something like depressive rumination, where your mind takes you to really dark places. I agree with Genie about calling 988 in those situations.
Martin talks about the problem solving mind and how it is quite helpful in certain situations. You notice the gas gauge going down; you know to get some gas/petrol before you run out and get stranded somewhere. Problem solved. But as he says, the problem solving mind is not helpful over something we can’t control, like sleep.
What has ultimately worked for me is being able to step back and watch my thoughts instead of just reacting to them. Which is hard to do when the thoughts are so powerful you think they must be true. Actually you are not alone and indeed you will be okay. Don’t give up!
Hi sahoosibu, I don’t have any additional insights at the moment. I would just reiterate what rswan15 and Martin are saying. Like rswan15 puts it, sometimes the racing thoughts just need to burn themselves out. And I think this means stepping back and watching them. Not trying to put them out like a fire in your kitchen, but also not diving in and swimming with them and getting tossed this way and that.
Hi Bea, when I find myself not feeling rested, i.e. a rough night or two, I sometimes wonder what’s behind it. Is there something going on in my life, and it might be obvious. A tense conversation, something really disturbing in the news which I guess I didn’t get out of my head.
Sometimes it is not so obvious. And if so, I don’t spend a lot of time analyzing it. If it goes on for another night, and maybe another night, I figure okay, a setback. Because even when things are going pretty well, there are setbacks. Maybe it’s like getting a cold. Who knows where you got it, it just happened.
And let’s say it’s been 3-4 nights. I sort of watch my thoughts passing through, like watching a small branch getting carried by in the river. I might spot a stream of thoughts jumbling by which all add up to “I’m stuck here forever…the insomnia is back…my life is going downhill…why can’t I get this right etc etc. If I am really into this depressive rumination thing, it is like I have fallen into the river and am getting swept away.
But eventually I recall that these are just thoughts, I don’t have to get swept away. I can just sit by the river and watch them go by.
This might sound passive, just letting it happen. Well, it is, actually. You’ve probably figured out by now that trying to sleep doesn’t work. You can try harder at lots of things, and generally get better at them, but not with this.
So it you find that you are sleeping better, but then not, try to remember that it happens sometimes. And if you freak out for a while first, that happens too!
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi KerryWillo, the sleep anxiety is bad enough. When it morphs into panic, it’s even worse. It sounds like you are sliding downward. And suggestions can seem so simplistic: “It’s all in your head!” “Just get over it!” blah blah
Still, for me anyway, when I found myself sliding into what I think is formally called depressive rumination, i.e. that really dark place……when I could finally lean back and actually watch myself sliding down, instead of just sliding down, I could sometimes even verbally, aloud, say “I am really going through a slice of hell here.” And I could give myself a break from all the work of trying to sleep. And you know what, I’m just going to do the best I can in this moment. If I have to leave for work in ten minutes, I will just do what I can to get ready in these ten minutes. And if I don’t have to do anything for the next hour–the daily chores can wait a bit–then I’m going to give myself some free time to do whatever I want. Watch a show, read, just veg out, whatever.
The thought that “it’s all gone drastically downhill!” can feel like “it all gone drastically downhill, I’m going to crash, I am not going to recover from this, I am doomed.” A powerful but false thought, aka the insomnia talking.
I have been searching for what to write here…..then I looked up and reread the title of your post: “The struggle is real!” And I recall how tough it is when you are hammered by insomnia to see that the way forward is to stop struggling.
Hi Lozelise, my sympathies for going through insomnia and the flu at the same time. I have been there a few times. The good news is that the flu will pass anyway, although it might hang around a few days longer since you are not able to get the sleep everyone is recommending. But it will pass.
The worries can stick around indefinitely, but it sounds like you already have the skills to deal with it. You’ve already recognized sleep anxiety for what it is—a powerful thought which can seem all-consuming, but just a thought nonetheless. Hard to see that when you’re tired, I know.
I think you are going to pull out of this.
I am not a mom and have never raised a baby.
I am convinced Martin’s course is a valuable resource. But I wonder if taking on additional responsibilities like logging sleep times is what you need right now. Maybe instead just letting yourself absorb the main message–that sleep comes on its own.
Yeah, right…with a baby about to cry any minute now? But what is happening in this moment? Is baby crying and needing your attention, or have you done all you can, or is this a silent moment when you can close your eyes?
This may sound lame, coming from someone who is not going through your experience. But maybe it’s true, anyway?
Your baby is lucky to have a mother who cares so much.
Hi Daniel, if I understand you correctly, “transient insomnia” means you sleep well for a while, maybe even an extended period, but it comes back.
I doubt there are many people who sleep wonderfully every night. Maybe caffeine or alcohol late at night, or a disturbing TV show, something going on at work, or who knows why, it just happens. You just don’t sleep that well that night.
How you react to that subpar sleep can play a part in how you sleep on subsequent nights. And you’ve already discovered that no sleep med will guarantee you will get back on track.
I had trouble with chronic insomnia for many years (whole lot of reasons, not pertinent here–doesn’t mean you will at all). But even now, like everybody I’ll have a poor night’s sleep. When I do, I try to step back and say, ‘well, I hope I sleep better tonight. But if I don’t, I’ve been here before, it won’t last forever.’ In other words, trying to not have so much riding on how well I sleep.
Trying harder improves chances of success in lots of things, but not sleep.
I know, easier said than done when you get on a nasty streak of bad sleep nights. True, though.
Hi kirstypsmith, it sounds like you intellectually understand what is going on—that the anxiety about sleep itself can supersede everything. How are you supposed to sleep with this constant panic swirl?
You have gone the route of all sorts of meds. I don’t know if you have just been getting meds from physicians who aren’t exploring how all this started. Or whether you have explored. Regardless, when you “can’t take much more,” I hope you will reach out not only here, but to the Crisis Line at 988. I used to work there, so I know it’s likely you will be asked point blank: “Are you thinking about killing yourself?” And most likely you will hear what I am hoping you will do. Which is to focus just on this moment. Not the next five minutes. What can you do, in this moment, to give yourself a break? And can you call us back as often as you need to?
This doesn’t mean you paste a smile on your face and say everything is peachy. You can acknowledge the truth, even if it is that right now:
1. “I am having the thought that insomnia is a monster and I can’t take this anymore.”
It is understandable to conclude that this actually means:
2. “Insomnia is a monster and I can’t take this anymore.” In other words, that 1 and 2 are the same.
But that’s the insomnia talking. Actually, 1 is true; but 2 is not. Which sounds like babbling gibberish when you are hammered by insomnia. But rather than blow this off, how about just set it aside and check out other posts. I think you will see that millions of us have been there, are there….and some posts will resonate with you more than others.
Take care, you are no way alone is this mess.
Hi Dreyo86, since you have been suffering so long, it could take some digging to find out how your anxiety originated. Some mental health professionals might dispute whether it is necessary to dig that deep. Personally, I had to do a lot of digging because of early childhood trauma and repressed (true) memories. But that might not be your situation.
What is clear: however it started, your anxiety has taken on a life of its own, hence the ongoing insomnia. I suspect the anxiety and accompanying depression would be with you even if you did not have the distractions like your noisy father and having to move to another room. These are difficulties, to be sure, but if you look into other posts and Martin’s materials, I think you will see that it’s not so much the external difficulties as how we react to them.
Clearly the anxious thoughts feel powerful, the way you describe them even when you try breathing exercises and meditation. And feeling helpless, feeling like I can’t sleep no matter what, feeling hopeless…..it can seem like this is real. Add to this the incredible importance our culture, at least in the West, accords to how we feel, and we can think this is reality.
When you are hammered from insomnia, it is hard to see that there is a huge difference between:
1. I am doomed to a life of insomnia and misery;
2. I feel like I am doomed to a life of insomnia and misery.
When I am living #2, it seems like #1 has to be true. It isn’t.
Hi langleys18, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I also had chronic insomnia unrelated to sleep apnea.
Sleep apnea is the one–in my experience, the only one–cause of insomnia which traditional Western medicine can effectively address. It is a physical abnormality, the way the palate, etc. interact. It can be technologically measured through a sleep study, supervised by a physician certified in Sleep Medicine. The solution is the CPAP, which does take getting used to. The physician will refer you a medical supply company which specializes in CPAP gear to see which type of mask/headgear works for you. You may well find a representative who uses a CPAP themselves and can relate to what you’re going through.
A CPAP machine will digitally monitor your sleep, and the physician will be able to track your progress, i.e. how many times per hour you register breath interruption, gasping or however they call it.
(Some people with sleep apnea blow off the CPAP machine and just try to pretend the apnea isn’t happening. This leads to continued insomnia caused by apnea, and there is a long-term risk of stroke if sleep apnea is not addressed.)
As I said, I had unrelated chronic insomnia beyond sleep apnea. This has meant using the CPAP to take care of the sleep apnea, then addressing the rest. This is where M.D. assistance drops off, other than prescribing a sleep med for a possible short-term effect. Much more effective is addressing how you react to the insomnia. I hope you will explore Martin’s website and read posts to see that there is help for you.
Hi Max, I am a 72 year-old man and can relate to the prostate thing. All I can do is relate to how I have handled it. You may have already addressed the strictly medical part, so I’ll try to keep it short.
Kegel sp? exercises can help control the urge to urinate during the day. Best accomplished when you do have access to a toilet but can elect not to rush to it at every slight urge. Watching the amount of liquids you drink, without abstaining to the point of dehydration. Getting a referral to a urologist, taking any prescribed prostate medication, getting PSA checked, etc. Exploring whether any emotional issues play a part, as frequent urination can be a sign of anxiety.
While most posts on this site will not address the prostate issue, a lot will address the accompanying anxiety about not getting back to sleep. This latter issue is the key. We might wake up because need to use toilet, or some other medical issue, or from job or family stress, or whatever. Or we just wake up, who knows why. What really drives insomnia is thoughts taking centerstage. What helps me most here—and it doesn’t work every night—is when I can mentally step back and watch the anxious thoughts barreling through my head. Instead of being overwhelmed by them.
I have made progress with mindfulness meditation (e.g. mindfulness northwest.com; palousemindfulness.com are a couple of free websites). Martin’s materials and course emphasize how thoughts can drive insomnia. And reading other posts can help. I think you will see that sleep anxiety is the common denominator most of us are dealing with. So much so that whatever might initially trigger insomnia, sleep anxiety alone can keep it going.
Take care, you are not alone here.
