[Deb]

Hi Steve – \Very sorry to hear about your stroke. Well, at least now you have an explanation for what’s been going on with you. Wishing you the very best!

[gsdmom]

Hi Steve,

It’s so good to hear from you! I’m so glad you decided to get a 2nd opinion from another neurologist. I wanted to mind my own business and didn’t say anything when I felt your 1st neurologist didn’t do for you what my daughter’s neurologists did for her as far as testing and so forth. At least now you know what the real problem is and this information should help with the healing process. As you may remember my condition started as a result of a medication reaction, I’m realizing now how much damage it did to my nervous system. All of this takes a long time to heal. You may have read I had shingles the 1st of May, and although the pain and rash diminished and was tolerable 4 weeks after the outbreak, the nerve path along my lumbar region to my upper leg still has not healed and there are weird sensations, but they don’t affect my day to day activities.

I hope your new doctor can help you with your headaches and eye strain. And again its so good of you to write as other people may be suffering from insomnia or other conditions that need further investigation, and let people know to follow their instincts, and not just take the condition of insomnia lightly as some doctors do.

I am mostly sleeping longer and deeper, but seem to have a relapse or setback for 1-3 days about every 12 days or so. But I feel so much better, thinking better and maybe even looking more refreshed! I’ll be praying that you will experience continued improvement too!

[Steve]

gsdmom – Thanks for the words of encouragement. I do remember that you got that bout of shingles and I’m sorry you haven’t completely recovered yet. But at least it isn’t totally debilitating. I also remember that the meds caused your insomnia but it’s also nice to see that you are sleeping better even if you do have some bad bouts with it every so often. I do sleep better than I have been but still can’t take naps or fall asleep like I used to. But that’s actually how I knew something else was wrong in that while I was sleeping better, I was still suffering from the other symptoms, which should have started clearing up once I got more sleep.

The neurologist told me that most of what you recover after a stroke comes back in the first year after the stroke occurs and I am well past that. However, I could still show further improvement down the road. Getting the eye muscles coordinated will help a lot as the two eyes not working together is probably what’s causing the dizziness, not the lack of sleep. The stroke also affected the muscles that focus the eyes as well. So now that I know what the problem is, I can focus on getting that corrected, if possible. I have to say I’m just still really upset at all of the doctors and lay people who once they heard I had insomnia immediately chalked up all of the problems I was having to that and tried to get me to go on psychotic drugs when anxiety wasn’t the problem at all.

Anyway, good luck to you gsdmom. Hope you are completely recovered soon and I will pray for you as well.

[Mac0908]

Had a flat out BAD/zombie night last night. Probably my first in months. And before bed, wouldn’t you know it, something big was on my mind. I was messing around on my phone with something related to what was on my mind, and though I knew to eventually put it the phone down, I definitely wired up my brain good. This is also something that hasn’t happened to me in a long time. Occasionally I’ll browse the phone for just a couple of minutes and then call it a night, but last night I was engaged.

This is consistent with what would happen to me during my darker days with insomnia as well as pre-insomnia as well. I vaguely recall that the nights where my mind was filled with a good amount of worry about something, would almost guarantee me a poor night. Not really a surprise, but I am just disappointed in myself. Let this be a lesson to me as well as all of you. A small bit of a screen time before bed is fine imo, but whatever you do try and not to let anything consume you right before you crash. Here’s to a better night tonight.

Steve btw, really nice to hear from you. Please keep us updated.

[Mac0908]

Back on track the last week ever since my bad night on July 1st.

Deb, how’s it going with you?

[Deb]

Hi Mac – haven’t been on here for awhile. I didn’t get any emails from this thread. It’s 3:30 and I can’t sleep. First time I’ve had a night like this in a long time. I attribute it to messing up my sleep schedule while my husband has been gone. But he came back tonight so hopefully I’ll get back on schedule. Glad you got back on track after your zombie night. Did you start back at work again yet?

Chen – how are you doing? It was good to talk to you on FaceTime and meet you face to face. I hope your weaning off your sleep medication is going ok.

[MM]

Any ACT-ers out there?

I just did 3.5 weeks of SRT and while my sleep was improving from week to week it was very slow going and the cumulative effects of increased sleep deprivation, anxiety about my sleep window, and recent stress made it too difficult to sustain.

I read The Sleep Book and have started to try the ACT techniques. The book makes perfect sense to me but I am struggling with a couple of things. First, while doing the techniques I have doubts that they will help. The general mindset of letting go of the struggle seems like it will be hugely helpful but noting thoughts or describing them feels sort of empty. This leads to anxiety that the techniques won’t work or that I am doing them wrong, which also causes anxiety.

Second, the whole staying in bed thing is hard for me. I can do this to an extent to practice the ACT techniques but laying there for hours is too much for me, especially since I have a long history of that before trying SC. Is it OK to practice the ACT techniques in bed but then get out of bed for a break and then return to practice more if need be?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Mike

[Deb]

Hi Mike – here’s my take on your questions. It’s natural to worry that it might not work. Like many of us, we’ve tried different things and didn’t get any better and got discouraged. So we wonder if this is actually going to work this time or not. But sometimes we just have to put our faith into something and do it even if we’re not sure we’ll get anywhere with it. So just try to put your faith in this and let go of your attachment to the outcome on a night to night basis.

Next, do whatever you need to do to be able to relax in bed. If noting your thoughts is not helpful and just causing anxiety, then don’t do that. Remember the case study of Carlos, who took a couple weeks just to learn to relax and bed and not worry about things. That’s your goal right now, just learning to relax in bed without struggling to fall asleep. if you can learn to relax, then eventually you will start falling asleep naturally, which I’m sure is what happened to Carlos.

For myself, I did not get up, even though the first night or two of doing ACT were very long. After that first night or two I saw that I was actually starting to fall asleep, even if for short periods. Or maybe the sleep was very light with dreams or I was in and out of sleep all night. The important point was that I was actually falling asleep, which was progress. So I kept it up. Over time, the sleep lengthened and deepened and eventually I was sleeping normally.

So I encourage you to stay in bed if you can. But if your anxiety is too much, then get up. When you’re ready to go to bed and to do nothing but lay there, go back to bed again. Eventually you will start falling asleep and it will get better over time.

[Odinsky]

Hey Guys! I haven’t read the recent posts but just wanted to check back and tell you all i’m free! I sleep like a baby now. I have been practicing meditation non stop for months and had a huge shift in consciousness. Like a switch flipping. I’m able to watch all of my thoughts, emotions and feelings and I no longer get tied up in them because I realize they are not even me. They are no more than fuzzies floating in the sky a mile away. Why be concerned over a fuzzy in the sky? The thinking mind just creates endless fuzzies floating in the sky. You need to learn how to non judgmentally observe all of these thoughts (fuzzies). Good or bad, none of them are WHO YOU ARE. This basically equates to the epitome of ACT, as I accept literally everything. I’ve had nights where I can’t sleep for the first hour or two, and I literally don’t care, so I always pass out and wake up to the birds singing. SRT failed miserably with me FYI. It sucked. I just had to be kinder to myself and set time aside every day to observe my thinking mind and emotions etc. Insomnia is the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME. I’m not kidding! I had no idea it was possible to live this free. I almost feel like I took a benzo, but I feel like that all day and night now. So relaxed and free. Guys, this is possible. I’m not some weirdo who’s on drugs, I have a family and a high paying job etc. I’m just a normal guy who found this other realm of existence. Waiting in traffic now is a pleasure, because I turn it into meditation. All you who are struggling read my posts. And KNOW that I now sleep 8 hours a night. You will be free as well. Just keep meditating, keep accepting.

[Deb]

That’s so awesome, Odinsky! Thanks so much for sharing! Yes, once you have the EXPERIENCE thru mindfulness/meditation that your thoughts are NOT YOU, then it’s so much easier to let them go. I love ACT also because it helped me realize that it was anxiety itself that was keeping me awake. This helped me understand the importance of learning to relax and let go of the anxious thoughts, and then I “remembered” how to sleep again just as I had my whole life previous to insomnia. Now whenever I have a short relapse, they are always very short, because I don’t worry about them and then I’m fine in a night or 2. Like you, sometimes I might not sleep for an hour or two, but I let go of any worry and it’s no big deal because by the next night or so I’m back to sleeping normally.

Thank you for being such a strong advocate for meditation/mindfulness, Odinsky. I think if those here who are struggling with their anxiety really set their minds to learn it and practice it, they would overcome their insomnia too, just as you have.

[Deb]

Just wondering, Odinsky. For the sake of others here who are struggling with anxiety, can you share your path to learning how to successfully mediate? Did you take a class, hire a teacher, or just learn it yourself through self-study and then stick with it consistently? What tools were helpful to you, i.e., mediation recordings, online stuff, etc? What does your meditation practice look like now? Thanks!

[MM]

Hi, Deb-

I agree I need to commit to 2-3 weeks of ACT, relax, and to give it a chance to work. I think that the simple act of committing will take away some of the anxiety. To move beyond the worry of whether it was right to quick CBT-I or whether ACT is the way to go and just jump in.

Last night went better. I realized yesterday that every time I try a new approach for my insomnia that my sleep gets worse because of anxiety. Anxiety about whether I am doing it right, self-monitoring, increased attention to my sleep, etc. So last night I let go of all of my concerns and my only intention was to not struggle, to “just be”, and to “not try.” I have struggled for so long with my insomnia that on some level I think I am always *trying* to go to sleep even if I don’t realize it!

This mindset shift seems really important for me and I did pretty well with it last night. My thoughts did get going at some point and so I did a little mindfulness, which was just feeling the pressure of the bed. Some thoughts did pop up and I did “notice” them to try to give them a little distance and then go back to mindfulness. I think keeping it simple for right now is important for me. Anyway, last night I fell asleep within 10 minutes, slept 30 minutes longer than average, and about 30 minutes less than what I need to truly feel good.

I think staying in bed gives me a lot of anxiety because I can see the strong role of conditioned arousal associated with the bed and it’s so hard to relax with this. For instance, many nights I am fighting to stay awake in front of the TV and the second I get into bed I am wide awake. This is why SC made such sense to me and why it’s anxiety making to hear the exact opposite even if I understand the rationale behind the approach. But the bottom line is that I need to make friends with my bed again and SC didn’t work so it’s time to try ACT. I think lying in bed for hours at time is too much for me right now but I can stay in bed for longer and work on being more relaxed. With daytime and nighttime mindfulness practice I think things will get easier and then I will be able to embrace spending longer periods in bed.

Thank you for responding! I read a lot of your posts above and they’ve been very helpful.

[whitelori]

Hi everyone,
This may sound like a really silly question, but if our thoughts, feelings, emotions, are not WHO we are, then what does make up who we are? Is it just our actions? I always think our feelings, thoughts, etc. do make us who are are to some degree. I know a thought may come that we never act on or that is irrational. But if we think hey, I love this person, that is a good thought and is part of WHO I am? I don’t know, maybe I am thinking too deeply about this! lol

[Odinsky]

Hey Deb. Thanks to you as well for being encouraging through this process. I was cautionary to post any of the details, as I tried to help some others and was called ‘pretentious’ for saying that meditation can cure anxiety based insomnia. I’ve also been told by many people that meditation made them worse, so they quit. Unfortunately, I believe those who are angered by the suggestion of meditation, or who are made worse by meditation, are the very ones who need it the absolute most. This was certainly the case for me. I became much, much worse before I got better. This is an extremely personal journey, and each person ultimately has to find their own way it seems. The difference for me was I did not quit. I went through the depths of hell on this journey, no doubt. And I feel I have the most precious gift imaginable to show for it. For me, the most powerful informational tool was listening to the power of now by Eckhartt Tolle on audio book. I have very little reading time in my day, but I found I had plenty of time I can listen to headphones. I did not watch TV, or listen to music. Every waking second I had the opportunity, I listened to the power of now. I use to think this stuff was full of crap and Eckartt was some new age business man praying on our societal neuroticism and essential breakdown as a collective whole. But nonetheless for some reason, I still gave it a shot. I don’t know why I felt drawn to it, It wasn’t recommended to me by anyone. But, I gave it a shot. When I first listened to the whole book I thought, OK I get it, but big deal. Well, even though I thought I ‘got it’, I didn’t. I wasn’t even close. I had no clue the depth to which the book points. I say “points’ because the book cannot lead you to freedom, it can only suggest that there is another way. Its simply the catalyst that, coupled with watching thoughts, brought me to the other side of existence. But, it was a painful journey as mentioned. It got much worse before it got better. For hours every day, I watched my thoughts, and was tormented by them. They were like demons who I couldn’t separate from. No matter how much I watched them, they came back more demanding and frequent. They intensified, they told me I was stuck, and to kill myself. The more I watched them the more they grew. I was on the floor begging for forgiveness, day in and day out. Crawling on the floor… literally. I wanted to quit so bad.
Now the day things shifted for me, after many months of misery, came as a surprise. It may be difficult to describe, but I will try my best. One day, while watching my thoughts and feeling positive about life in general for a change, I realized that even my positive thoughts were thoughts. I then realized my thought that I should meditate was a thought. My thought that I should watch my thoughts, was a thought. That every happy thought was a thought and everything, every single thing, every emotion, every mood, was a thought. I know this may sound obvious or as some sort of superficial description. But the depths to which this reality struck were enormous. I think what happened was I was always watching my “bad” thoughts. Or negative thoughts. But the moment I realized all thoughts are thoughts, and thinking mind derived and thus inconsequential, is the moment I truly shifted. The shift was cataclysmic. I realized I no longer had to be tormented, as the tormentor wasn’t real. I couldn’t disassociate before because I was still associated with my positive thoughts. I felt a rush of extreme euphoria when I realized how to watch ALL thoughts. What I liken heroin must be like. I felt an intense love for my wife and son, like I never had before. I live in a beautiful coastal town and stared at a old Mossy Oak tree like it was the first time I had ever seen it. Because without my thinking mind, it was the first time I saw it. The immense joy of FELT being, without the mind labeling or judging, is incredible. This is something that must be felt. You cannot think it. And you cannot get there overnight. It is like lifting weights, very labor intensive and requires ultimate commitment. You cannot seek it out either, you must practice and allow everything that comes without pursuit. You must give in, turn over and accept almost like a turtle turning belly up in the sand. It is uncomfortable, demoralizing and painful. As Eckhartt says tho, there is nothing to tell you that you do not already know deep down inside.

[Odinsky]

Whitelori. Who you are cannot be derived by the thinking mind. The thinking mind is what is comprised of thoughts, emotions, etc and it is what dominates most if not all of our existence. It is a false sense of self that really just exists for survival. It almost reminds me of a curtain, that is draped in front of us and we don’t even realize it’s there. But when the curtain is removed, you then see that WHO YOU ARE cannot be “thought” but it can only be felt. You cannot think of who you are. You FEEL it as a deep down unshakable peace. A peace that radiates in your belly. A peace that exists Regardless of thoughts or what is going on in your life. Just Like how the ocean beneath the waves is calm. You are the ocean in its entire vastness and stillness. Your thoughts and emotions are the waves. They are superficial, meaningless and inconsequential. They pale in comparison to WHO YOU ARE, who is enternal and beyond depths of thought. This must be felt. It cannot be understood.

[Author]

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