[tschopm]

Well, the title says it all, but I think it's an interesting question. I have Bipolar II, and while I mostly have spells of depression, I'll occasionally have a hypomanic period during which I can't sleep for more than a few hours every night. I also have periods of time during which I feel normal and still can't sleep, usually for a few weeks. It's pretty cyclical and predictable, but I'm just wondering if anyone else wants to chime in? Anyone else on here have a Bipolar diagnosis?

[Martin Reed]

A very interesting question – thanks for starting this one off.

I just read an article that mentioned a patient who was being treated for insomnia, when in fact they were suffering with bipolar disorder. I wonder if the two conditions are more separate than related?

Here's a link to the article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata-/Kolkatans-caught-in-sleepless-cycle/articleshow/6389667.cms

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[tschopm]

Interesting article. I've been reading about different findings on brain abnormalities in people with bipolar versus people with insomnia…nothing is really conclusive, but it seems like there are differences between the two, at least judging by what i found on Wikipedia :-p

[seenafterscene]

I have not had a chance to read the article yet, though I believe Martin may have posted the link before. That said, what I notice more than whether or not the hypopmania or mania I experience is a lack of sleep, is that inevitably when I “crash” the lack of sleep sure makes itself known in a negative way. I also suffer from bipolar, and have insomnia, and personally consider them separate but distinctly different issues.

[MarinaFournier]

I haven't read the article yet, myself, but as an insomiac and a bipolar NOS, they are not the same BUT may have some similar brain processes in common. I'd say bipolar has more in common with migraines than anything else. If you look at Topomax/topiramate, it's used as a mood stabilizer (my first, lasted two years and quit), as an alcoholism treatment/drunk driver deterrent (NM), and as a headache preventative. Whether it is also used as a seizure preventative, I cannot say. There are some whose research seems to show that migraines are a seizure disorder. While on Topomax, I had my first night of restful sleep, from which I woke up *refreshed*, in over 20 years.

My husband had asked me in the year or so before, a little angry, if I ever woke up from a good sleep/woke up refreshed, and I looked at him blankly and said, No. Can't recall anytime in the past dunnamany years.

Before I was dx'd bipolar, and was thought to be merely severely and chronically depressed, I was stuck, for a few months, until I fired him, with a pdoc who didn't listen to me. I said, I'm a lifelong insomniac who's depressed. He decided to give me Serzone, which is for depressed people who have insomnia as a smptom, not the other way around. I said, Benzodiazepines and other sleep meds don't work on me. I tired it, and next meeting told him it kept me awake–I literally was prevented from getting to sleep by this stuff. I could feel the difference, the same way I could tell that the topomax was making me stupid when it came to “the right word” or remembering what I had crossed the room for. My brain didn't feel the same, and as an anti-depressant, it stank. So he upped the dose. Next time, I repeat myself, saying it's worse, so he tells me to take even more. He wouldn't listen to me asking for another pmed, actually, he never *looked at me in session*. He was in his 70s or later, he was hidebound, He Knew Best, and there wasn't another pdoc in the county accepting patients but one whose reputation stank. At the next session, I could barely keep my knees straight, as I was dead on my feet. My body wanted to sleep so badly, to say nothing of my brain!

The next pdocs I met were so much the opposite of him it floored me. I began to have hope. Maybe I had to go out of Santa Cruz County to get a decent pdoc. Mine's in HalfMoonBay, and worth the drive: I've been with her since July 2001. She doesn't try to treat my insomnia, because that's not her specialty.

Most of the sleep docs I know seem to be focused only on apnea, and I'm not an apneac. I also don't get manias–I have BIG, deep, long depressions, and leetle-teeny hypomanias that pop like a bubble once I figure I'm in one. They may last all of two hours in the middle of the day. So, admittedly having had no experience with true mania, I'd say insomnia and bipolar depression are two different animals.

[MarinaFournier]

'tschopm' wrote on '24:

Well, the title says it all, but I think it's an interesting question. I have Bipolar II, and while I mostly have spells of depression, I'll occasionally have a hypomanic period during which I can't sleep for more than a few hours every night. I also have periods of time during which I feel normal and still can't sleep, usually for a few weeks. It's pretty cyclical and predictable, but I'm just wondering if anyone else wants to chime in? Anyone else on here have a Bipolar diagnosis?

When I've been hypomanic for more than a couple of hours, I am not one who is awake, with more energy and doesn't feel the need for sleep. It doesn't matter what part of the cycle I'm in, if I'm not getting sleep, I'm not getting rest, and I'm NOT happy about it. In youth to young adulthood, if I had a project I wanted to finish, I might be able to stay up until 4 am working on it, getting blurrier and blurrier, then crashing and feeling miserable on 2-3 hours sleep when I had to get ready to leave in the light of day.

I'm much more likely to be awake all hours when depressed. Right now, my sleep cycle is out of whack…

[Author]

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