[Kik]

'seenafterscene' wrote on '21:

He turned a comic book character plot and movie into a marginal message film about anarchy; about a sociopath that was psychotic and destructive and violent out of sheer giddy desire and “madness.”

Not really.

This new series wouldn't have existed without Frank Miller's Year One/The Dark Knight Returns. (My copy of the Dark Knight Returns was published in 1986). The Year One story (among other things) describes the birth of Batman, Gordon dealing with corruption, Harvey Dent becoming Batman's ally, Falcone's mafia and drugs racket etc. I'm pretty sure a number of Nolan's Batman's gadets turn up like the device that calls the bats to him. It ends with a nod to the next chapter of the Joker planning to poison Gotham's water system. At the start of the Dark Knight Returns, the 'baddies' are the mutants who are anarchic teenagers going around committing crimes and causing havoc for the hell of it.

Identical plot points aside, Nolan's Batman Begins project was only accepted after Darren Aronofsky and Frank Miller paved the way with their considerably darker and grittier Year One script. Hollywood okayed the new, darker Batman to take the franchise into a new direction after the damage Joel Schumacher had done. All Nolan really did was to make an adult-orientated comic palatable for Hollywood execs.

You can bet your bottom dollar, had Batman and Robin been a success (like Batman Forever), we would have seen a whole bunch of George Clooney-shaped Batman movies with cartoon baddies and batsuits with nipples. 😀

'seenafterscene' wrote on '21:

The way I usually explain it is that, you could have taken the same cast & crew, taken away the costumes, and this very well could have been a competent cop/criminal crime drama.

Completely agree with you 🙂

[yamerias]

Off to a preview screening of Hot Tub Time Machine tomorrow,and hopefully Iron Man 2 Thursday.

[Kik]

'yamerias' wrote on '27:

Off to a preview screening of Hot Tub Time Machine tomorrow,and hopefully Iron Man 2 Thursday.

Jealous! 😀

[seenafterscene]

'Kik' wrote on '27:

Not really.

This new series wouldn't have existed without Frank Miller's Year One/The Dark Knight Returns. (My copy of the Dark Knight Returns was published in 1986). The Year One story (among other things) describes the birth of Batman, Gordon dealing with corruption, Harvey Dent becoming Batman's ally, Falcone's mafia and drugs racket etc. I'm pretty sure a number of Nolan's Batman's gadets turn up like the device that calls the bats to him. It ends with a nod to the next chapter of the Joker planning to poison Gotham's water system. At the start of the Dark Knight Returns, the 'baddies' are the mutants who are anarchic teenagers going around committing crimes and causing havoc for the hell of it.

Identical plot points aside, Nolan's Batman Begins project was only accepted after Darren Aronofsky and Frank Miller paved the way with their considerably darker and grittier Year One script. Hollywood okayed the new, darker Batman to take the franchise into a new direction after the damage Joel Schumacher had done. All Nolan really did was to make an adult-orientated comic palatable for Hollywood execs.

You can bet your bottom dollar, had Batman and Robin been a success (like Batman Forever), we would have seen a whole bunch of George Clooney-shaped Batman movies with cartoon baddies and batsuits with nipples. 😀

Yes, I am completely aware of its Frank Miller origins, along with some other darker, more obscure of the Batman comic ouvre that was basically, well, ripped off. I am well aware of the various attempts over the years to head this direction.

But sometimes, that's what I admire most about (in this Christopher Nolan's “The Dark Knight,”) or someone like J.J. Abrams (LOST, FRINGE, STAR TREK 2009, CLOVERFIELD), they manage to make things are not necessarily novel, revolutionary, or even THAT original, but they somehow manage to walk the wicked-thin tight rope of appealing to mass audiences, while maintaining the richer, darker elements.

That's why I feel bad for someone like Joss Whedon, who I think is a certifiable genius, but with the exception of his “written by” credit on Toy Story (first one, I believe) and the mostly internet/dvd sensation of “Dr. Horrible,” has been unable to draw in mass appeal with creative complexity. He remains a cult hero and Internet worshipped genius, that or critics, meanwhile his last two shows were cancelled almost before they even started.

I guess as someone who frequently gets a “love it!” or “wtf was that?!” response to my own creative endeavors, I have a great admiration for people like the aforementioned, and people like Steven Spielberg, who maintain some sense of creative integrity, but making a product that SELLS. It's a pretty elusive, relatively small group, IMO, of filmmakers and screenwriters, directors, etc. that can do that.

I have mad respect for Frank Miller and Darren Arronofsky…but I have to say, people for the most part still view movies as entertainment, not art. And the majority of my personal movie collection are movies that are bleak, depressing, disturbing, French, indie, or European, and I can never get anyone to watch them with me. LITERALLY, everyone that looks at my collection is like “Don't you have anything normal for us to watch?” That's why someone on the opposite end of the spectrum like James Cameron is so successful, he dishes out the junk that people like to eat with their popcorn, and if they're lucky enough to be at the right theatre, their beer.

[seenafterscene]

Am I the only one looking forward to the new Nightmare on Elm Street???

I generally hate remakes and relaunches of franchises with a passion, but aside it from having the wonderful Katie Cassidy (who, as anyone knows from my Twitter avatar, I think is the best thing since “I Can't Believe It's Not Butter,”) but because horror, in more recent years, has actually been chruning out some quite tolerable retreads.

Many of these old classics are still classics, but very dated. The original “Halloween” was highly influential, a classic, it's still very tense…but also IMO, very dated. The new Halloween, much as I disliked much of it, elevated it to more modern standards. Even the new Friday the 13th, which is by no means a classic or anything, just I'm surprised at how many of these re-launches and remakes are actually finding a great balance in the inherent horror structure of being a little tacky, a little retro, and a lot more bloody and the whole texture in many of these films seems to pay homage, much as it wants to make a dollar, much as it wants to reinvigorate and modernize said franchise.

[Kik]

'seenafterscene' wrote on '28:

But sometimes, that's what I admire most about (in this Christopher Nolan's “The Dark Knight,”) or someone like J.J. Abrams (LOST, FRINGE, STAR TREK 2009, CLOVERFIELD), they manage to make things are not necessarily novel, revolutionary, or even THAT original, but they somehow manage to walk the wicked-thin tight rope of appealing to mass audiences, while maintaining the richer, darker elements.

The moneymen wouldn't spend money on a project they doubted they'd receive a return on, in this case a Disney-fied version of Year One. Violence is exciting, dark is cool and modern audiences have been shelling out for this on mass since The Empire Strikes Back. That tightrope is thicker then you give it credit for.

'seenafterscene' wrote on '28:

That's why I feel bad for someone like Joss Whedon, who I think is a certifiable genius, but with the exception of his “written by” credit on Toy Story (first one, I believe) and the mostly internet/dvd sensation of “Dr. Horrible,” has been unable to draw in mass appeal with creative complexity. He remains a cult hero and Internet worshipped genius, that or critics, meanwhile his last two shows were cancelled almost before they even started.

I don't feel bad for Joss Whedon as much as I'm upset at the injustice. I haven't seen Dollhouse so I can't comment, but to see how the awesome Firefly was treated in light of seven successful seasons of Buffy and five of Angel, I'm a believer in the Whedon-sabotage conspiracy.

That's done it! I'm off to get my Firefly box set out now 😀

[Hedwig]

Just got back from seeing the new Iron Man 2 movie today…I was lucky enough to have my nephew off school so it gave me a good excuse to take him… 😛

Anyway, let’s get the big question out of the way: Was Iron Man 2 better than the first film..? My answer…Not quite. 😮

Having said that, remember that the first film set the bar high, so not topping it doesn’t mean this sequel was bad….far from it….what it means is that while I liked it a lot, I didn’t quite love it like I did the first film….

This film has a lot going on, one may say too many plot lines running concurrently…we have the Stark Industries’ rival Justin Hammer (Sam Rockwell), another wealthy weapons manufacturer who is the less charismatic version of Tony Stark. Hammer is jealous of Stark’s Iron Man tech and is determined to bring him down…there's the fact that Stark is being slowly poisoned by the palladium that powers the miniature arc reactor in his chest…..and it’s getting rapidly worse and despite applying all his genius towards finding a replacement, he hasn’t been able to find anything that works — he’s dying and it’s going to happen sooner than later….

Then while all this is going on we have Ivan Vanko (Mickey Rourke) over in Russia, whose dying father was apparently shafted big time by Tony’s father, Howard. Vanko manages to build his own miniature arc reactor and vows revenge against Stark…..which brings us finally to Scarlett Johansson playing “Natalie Rushman,” an accountant who comes into the Pepper Potts/Tony Stark relationship…..

Enough about the so called negatives — It was a pleasure to see Robert Downey Jr. back in the role, and I have to say that everyone involved did an excellent job……Gwyneth Paltrow’s role was expanded……I actually would have liked to have seen more of Mickey Rourke in the film and Scarlett Johansson was very good in her role and she certainly kicked ass big time when the time came….

There is more than a hint of Avengers foundation-laying here through multiple appearances by Nick Fury and mentions of SHIELD, but it feels more like icing on the cake rather than a driver of the story……

The action sequences surpassed the first film in both quantity, quality and length, I won't go into to detail as I wouldn't want to spoil things too much for you…

Overall you shouldn’t be disappointed and Iron Man 2 is a great way to kick off the 2010 summer movie season. Oh, and do hang around to watch the full credits…you won't be disappointed…. 😛 😛

[seenafterscene]

'Kik' wrote on '29:

The moneymen wouldn't spend money on a project they doubted they'd receive a return on, in this case a Disney-fied version of Year One. Violence is exciting, dark is cool and modern audiences have been shelling out for this on mass since The Empire Strikes Back. That tightrope is thicker then you give it credit for.

Well, clearly we can agree to disagree. I'm well aware of how the studio system works, particularly post-Jaws, post-Star Wars, and I'm also fully aware of things like all the indie auters doing kids movies (Spike Jonze, Wes Anderson, etc.) because those are the projects they could actually get financed, versus the kind of work they usually do. At the end of the day, to quote Puff Daddy, “It's all about the Benjamins.”

[seenafterscene]

Kik–by the way, just to clarify, just wanted to say even though we clearly disagree on this, it's nice to have someone to have such a-more-in-depth-than-average movie discussion with. I look forward to debating (or agreeing?) with you in the future.

[seenafterscene]

'Hedwig' wrote on '29:

Just got back from seeing the new Iron Man 2 movie today…I was lucky enough to have my nephew off school so it gave me a good excuse to take him… 😛

Anyway, let’s get the big question out of the way: Was Iron Man 2 better than the first film..? My answer…Not quite. 😮

Having said that, remember that the first film set the bar high, so not topping it doesn’t mean this sequel was bad….far from it….what it means is that while I liked it a lot, I didn’t quite love it like I did the first film….

There is more than a hint of Avengers foundation-laying here through multiple appearances by Nick Fury and mentions of SHIELD, but it feels more like icing on the cake rather than a driver of the story……

The action sequences surpassed the first film in both quantity, quality and length, I won't go into to detail as I wouldn't want to spoil things too much for you…

Overall you shouldn’t be disappointed and Iron Man 2 is a great way to kick off the 2010 summer movie season. Oh, and do hang around to watch the full credits…you won't be disappointed…. 😛 😛

Thanks for the review. I was one of the rare people thought Iron Man was good, but not great. But I saw huge potential. (Kinda like how I thought Transformers 1 was okay, but Transformers 2 was awesome.)

I look forward to seeing this one!!! Sounds like the action sequences are at least going to be with it. I thought that moment with Nick Fury's “hidden cameo” alone made me want to see Iron Man 2. Lol.

[Martin Reed]

I love how this discussion is developing. Maybe we need a movie category so we can discuss specific movies without confusing ourselves? Alternatively we could 'expand' the Writer's Corner into a category discussing arts in general (poetry, stories, movies, music).

—

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[seenafterscene]

That sounds like a great idea, Martin!!!

[seenafterscene]

So has anyone seen the new Nightmare on Elm Street yet???

I kind of don't leave the house a lot, and I don't do well with crowds/crowded areas/personal space so I usually rent, instead of theatre–but I've been really looking forward to this remake and would love to hear your thoughts about it.

Also, keep those Iron Man 2 comments coming, either/or (ANOES or IM 2), I might actually drag myself to go see. Jimmy Fallon specifically mentioned the sound being particularly awesome. Also, the variety of jokes in Iron Man 2.

[yamerias]

I got to see Iron Man 2 at an advance screening, and as much as I enjoyed it, it was not as good as the first instalment…but if you are a comic book fan it is certainly worth a watch.

The problem with the next few Marvel movies coming up is they are going to be concentrating on The Avengers, so the storylines are not really going to concentrate on the character properly.

As for NOES, this is one of the few remakes I think was a really good one (usually I cannot stand remakes) and I enjoyed this almost as much as the original, which got me hooked on horror movies.

[seenafterscene]

Thanks Yameris. 🙂

***

I just finished watching SHERLOCK HOLMES and surprisingly rather enjoyed it. I feel like Guy Ritchie really had his mojo working, even moreso than his other highly stylized work. (Keep in mind, he's not someone I'm a fan of.)

The fight choreography was amazing, even though the quick-cut/maximum effectiveness comabt is the trend these days (BOURNE trilogy, TAKEN), this was outstanding IMO.

And the art direction, wow.

And if all of that had failed, I firmly believe it is perfectly okay to enjoy any movie with Jude Law or Rachel McAdams.

[Author]

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