[Grangers]

Not sure if im doing sleep restriction properly. Im setting a window of between 1am to roughly 7:15 ish every morning give or take 10 minutes. Given my earliest bedtime of 1am should i still only be going to bed once im sleepy after 1am (or if im sleep at 1am). I know we say give yourself the opportunity to sleep at least 5.5 hours. So is it ok to give ourselves the opportunity to get less if we are not sleepy in time to get the full 5.5 hours? I know eventually that sr makes it so you are kinda sleepy nearer the start of your sleep window but what about the arousal system continually stopping you from feeling sleepy til later? In addition if we feel sleepy before heading to bed but still cant get a decent unbroken sleep is that the arousal/conditioning at play still? Whats your thoughts on all of this

[Martin Reed]

If you have a sleep window of 1:00 AM to 7:15 AM, then you are giving yourself the opportunity to get six hours and 15 minutes of sleep. Regardless of what happens at night, it can be helpful to ensure you are always out of bed by 7:15 AM — even if you have a night of no sleep whatsoever. This keeps sleep drive high, to help with sleep the following night.

If you go to bed and don’t fall asleep then conditions aren’t right for sleep to happen at that time. For people with chronic insomnia, that’s often because they aren’t sleepy enough for sleep, they are putting effort into sleep, they are putting pressure on themselves to sleep, and/or they are trying to fight/avoid all the difficult thoughts and feelings that usually like to come along for the ride!

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If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Grangers]

Thanks for your input martin so if im still not feeling sleepy at 1am my earliest bedtime i should still not go to bed until i do feel sleepy even if thats 2 or 2:30am?

[Martin Reed]

Correct — unless you know from experience that you fall asleep pretty easily even when you go to bed before feeling sleepy.

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If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Grangers]

Thanks Martin you are a credit to the forum lots of respect. Reason im asking so many questions is that ive been trying sleep restriction on my own for about a year with very mixed results. I still experience alot of light sleep tim skipping and waking early or struggling to sleep at all to start with. Is it possible my arousal sysyem is still being fed somewhat? I believe i dont experience hyperarousal in the physical sense pounding yeart sweating etc but more the cognitive side of it

[Martin Reed]

All your questions have been great ones — I have no doubt this thread will be helpful for many people!

In terms of seeing mixed results with sleep restriction, that can happen if we misunderstand the goal or purpose of sleep restriction.

We aren’t trying to make sleep happen or avoid nighttime wakefulness since we can’t control sleep (and the more we try, the more we struggle).

Instead, sleep restriction is a tool that helps limit the amount of time available for nighttime wakefulness while strengthening the body clock (with the consistent out of bed time) and ensuring enough wakefulness to build sleep drive.

In other words, it simply can help set the stage for sleep, and help us avoid some common behaviors that can perpetuate sleep disruption.

Since we have an earliest possible bedtime and a consistent out of bed time, we are prevented from engaging in perhaps the most common unhelpful sleep effort — chasing after sleep by going to bed earlier, staying in bed later, or napping during the day.

Remember, too, that sleep restriction is merely one tool. It’s not really intended to address the cognitive arousal so much — that arousal often comes from our desire to avoid nighttime wakefulness. A sleep window doesn’t really address that.

If we can move away from that desire, the arousal that comes with it might have less power and less of an influence over our sleep (and our lives)!

—

If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

[Grangers]

Thanks Martin im hoping thats the case and someone can gain something valuable from it. With the sleep drive does it not help overpower the cognitive arousal (or any type really) the more that builds up. I get that if you sleep a bit and then the arousal can take over again

[Chee2308]

Hello @grangers

Waking up is really normal and common! It has nothing to do with arousal but more to do with our thousand year old survival mechanism. It’s built-into our sleep system so that we wake up occasionally and scan for external dangers or threats and then if everything’s safe, we can go back to sleep peacefully.

If you continue to see this as abnormal or something to be avoided at any cost, or think you need to have high sleep drive to get back to sleep, you will keep having trouble falling back asleep. Your sleep drive will naturally reduce after sleeping, even for a while, so the reduced amount of sleep drive will not be enough to overcome any learned arousal associated with waking up during the night anymore. So the only way is to convince yourself that waking up is normal and nothing to be afraid of. This reduces the arousal. Only then you can go back to sleep quite easily. But waking up will still happen regardless of what you do or how safe you feel!

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