[Steve]

Glad to hear you are more relaxed about sleeping Deb. Things are progressing for me. Last week, I regressed to where I was only getting 3 to 3 and a half hours of sleep which was killing me. These last 5 nights though have been progressing in the positive direction again. I am getting in the high 4’s and last night I got 5 1/4 hours of sleep. I felt better today although that amount of sleep is still not enough for me. Therefore, I am still suffering from slight dizzyness, trouble focusing my eyes and brain fog. Still, it’s not as bed as when I was getting in the 3’s. And at least I am not fighting off the urge to fall asleep at my desk at work. I am hoping that now that I broke the 5 hour sleep barrier, I can build upon that. Have fun on your vacation. I don’t know how you have the energy to do all of that.

[Borgesbi]

Hey everyone,

Very nice to read everyone’s updates!

Karen, thank you for your post and explaining everything, so appreciated.

Steve, so good you’re gotten on a wave of good sleep.

Mac – your positive attitude is encouraging!

Deb – your attitude is always encouraging!

Pam – you seem to be getting some quick results from CBT-I, keep it up 🙂

Seems like many of us are going through better phases – these are so important to keep us motivated and hopeful AND healthy. I’m also on a wave  of better sleep, although still with its flaws – sometimes I’ll be up in the middle of the night for a little longer, sometimes have a whole night of light sleep, sometimes I’ll feel the conditioned arousal come out of the blue when falling asleep every now and then but in general it’s been better. No more than 15 minutes of SC needed in a while, which I’m so grateful for.  I’ve been staying neutral/positive and even curious lately, which I think adds another layer of relaxation – not taking this insomnia thing so seriously and not letting it control me. For example, I had 1 or 2 nights recently where I felt so much adrenaline run through my body right when I was falling asleep and instead of getting angry/frustrated/afraid I felt deeply curious. My response was: “What the heck? This is so weird. I was sooo relaxed coming to bed, there was no reason for all this adrenaline. Well, alright, let’s get out of bed for just a few minutes to calm down the body”. I think this attitude has been really helpful in falling asleep fine after having these weird “scares”. In the past, if the evening started with one of these “scares” I was doomed and I just knew it was going to be a very long and rough night.  Oh, and Steve – I’m starting to notice a decrease in the effect of the CBD oil as well :/. Too bad because it was working wonders, but at least I’m not feeling any withdrawal symptoms.

Anyway, I’m stoping here and wishing you all a great 4th of July with lots of rest (or adventures in Deb’s case! Haha).

Stay strong, everyone! I bet in 6 months we’ll all be posting better things here! Talk soon

[Daf]

One thing I wonder is how can you be sure about how much sleep you have had.

Last night was a good case in point. I fell asleep in front of TV and my wife and son tell me I was asleep for at least 45 mins at 11pm – snuffling and snoring. But I was sure I had not slept.

As the night went on, I continued downstairs on couch (now on my own) and felt I did not sleep until at least 5am, and even then it seemed like  short sleeps for 20 mins or so, then waking. (I only know for sure I slept then because I can recall the dreams).

Overall it feels like I had about 2 hours sleep, maybe a bit more.

But given that I could have sworn I did not sleep at 11pm, but I can take my wife and sons word for it, how can I be completely sure I got no sleep between midnight and 5am? I can’t recall dreams then, but that does not mean I did not sleep. I looked at clock every 45 mins or so, sure (yes I know one should not do that!), but I could not 100% hand on heart says I did not sleep during this time.

So how is it you are all so sure of your sleep amounts?

I wonder if some folks here could be seriously underestimating time spent sleeping – which is something I think that sleep trials have proved can happen often.

[delv-x]

Hi Daf,

Yes absolutely. Those with insomnia commonly have sleep state misperception or also now known as paradoxical insomnia. Even if you look at the time every 45 minutes, sometimes 45 minutes feels like 5 and you may have been asleep. The first time I was aware was when I dosed on the bed and my wife was in the room and I got up and felt like I didn’t but she swears I did.

Also I believe you posted something about GABA a few weeks ago. I’ve been supplementing it and since *knock on wood* I’ve been having better nights and more REM in the morning (which is also good for memory and mood). If you have issues with sleep maintenance you could try it. I am still skeptical but it’s been like 2 weeks and so far so good. I take about 350mg about an hour before bed. I don’t “feel” anything but when I wake up in the middle of the night I am more in the zone to dose back.

[Daf]

Thanks Delv. Yes, anyone who has ever been told that they were sleeping by someone else (when they though they weren’t) needs to seriously question the accuracy of their sleep records.

This, of course, is a huge weakness of diary self- reporting in SRT (though I am a fan of SRT, but one must appreciate its limitations).

Re GABA, well done… but my research seemed to show that like melatonin tabs / tryptophan?, one cannot gainsay the body’s ability to produce the sleep hormone. I tried 5HDP and melatonin and neither worked for me in the long term.

The only thing that’s helped me is stimulus control and SRT (in my case to less than 6 hrs net a night, after urine wake ups!) and mirtazapine taken 1 hour before intended sleep time. I’m weaning off mirtazapine now – on only 3.75mg a night and skipping some nights too.

Plus a bit of mindfulness helps too – when I cant sleep right away.

[Mac0908]

For the last 3 weeks I’ve had about 3 bad nights total. I can’t complain. I’ve been doing well. I had a breakdown about a month ago and slowly but surely got back into a very good groove.

Last night was one of those three bad nights. No real reason for it. Went to bed pretty tired but seemed to wake in the early morning hours. While I didn’t look at the clock of course it didn’t change the fact that I was awake and out of deep sleep. This continued until my alarm went off at 6am. Extremely tired today. Shot.

However the difference between a bad day like today and a bad day a year ago is I am not having a breakdown of sorts. I’m not devastated. I know they will still come, sometimes even on back to back occasions. The important thing is to know that while they will still come, they will go, and I will eventually sleep better again, like I know I have been able to do. This has been a very difficult process. Nobody said it was going to be easy. I’ve had to get a lot worse before I could begin to get better and although I still feel like I have a ways to go, I’m happy with the progress I’ve made this year.

[Deb]

Sorry you had a bad night, Mac, but glad that you’re doing better over.

[Steve]

Wow! This thread died. How is everyone doing?

[Alison]

I am newer here. Been doing SR and SC for almost 2 weeks. Though I’m still tired and am not getting enough sleep, it is much better quality. I’ve had some nights here and there where I wake up too early. I notice that my few nights of less sleep make me nervous, even though I’ve had had more good nights than bad. Do you guys feel this way? It’s so easy to focus on the bad nights.

Though I’ve had plenty of nights with good sleep efficiency, the bad ones have dragged my weekly averages down. I’m at 86% for a weekly average and I think I’ll increase my sleep window by 15 minutes. But I’m nervous to do it. My weekly average isn’t bad but I would like it higher… am I getting too hung up on the numbers?

[Steve]

Hi Alison. Yes, many of us start to worry here when we get the bad nights. I was just talking to Martin about this and I am just as guilty. Who are you doing your SR with? Are you taking Martin’s free course? According to the rules, since you are above 85%, you can increase your window by 15 minutes. How long is your window now? If you are uneasy about doing that, you can always wait a week before you increase. That way, you will make sure that you are above the 85% line and not pushing it just because you reached 85%. It also might push your bad nights numbers up some. As you said, don’t get caught up in the numbers. That is a sure way to start worrying about your sleep and returning to insomnialand. Keep us posted on this thread as to how your doing.

[Alison]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Thanks for your thoughts, Steve. Yes, I am doing the free course. My SW is 6 hours right now. Last night I slept about 5, which is less than most nights and I didn’t feel very good much of the day.  I think I’ll try increase my SW 15 minutes and if it doesn’t go well I’ll increase it in 5 minute increments if I have to! I’ll try not worry about the numbers though of course it’s easier said than done!</p>

[Mac0908]

Hey Steve, hope all is going well. With regards to an update on me, I’ve fallen back into the typical bad phase after a good phase. Seems like a cycle I continue to fight. The only difference these days is that instead of letting that bad phase go on for weeks before I revert back to SRT routines, I’ll only let it go on for a couple of DAYS now. I don’t know what it is but it’s just sad. I slept very well (for the most part) for a good couple of weeks. Then at some point last week things quickly fell apart even through this weekend with no 6am work alarm to worry me.

How are you doing? Delv? Deb??

[Deb]

I’m doing ok, Mac. I’m on vacation but unfortunately have had some bad days so I couldn’t enjoy myself like I would have liked to if I wasn’t so tired. Will get back into working at this when I get home next week.

[Steve]

Hey everyone. Doing okay here. I got three relatively good nights of sleep but then had a bad one last night but I’m not stressing about it as I know it’s going to happen. I’m also on vacation this week and so have been trying to fill my days with relaxing activities instead of the work routine. I think that’s why I had those three good nights of sleep. In fact, I had a very enjoyable last 4 or 5 days and I am starting to see how a positive attitude and going out and having fun and living my life can help beat this. Martin has been a big help in making me recognize this and I’m glad I took the paid course. Now I just have to stay positive when I go back to work after vacation is over. This is actually my first time on the forum in a couple days as I am trying to avoid everything on here except for this thread. It’s hard to keep a positive attitude after reading some of the posts but I do want to support everyone doing SR in this thread. Mac, I think you know what I mean as you have avoided the forum on occasions as well. Going to eat breakfast and then get out there and ride my 10 speed before the rains come. Take care all.

[Mac0908]

Hi Steve. Really glad to hear you are enjoying a good phase at the moment. In time if you stick to what’s right you’ll notice the good phases will outweigh the bad ones. You are on vacation though you said. I’m assuming there is no alarm for you this week. I’m curious do you have an alarm for work otherwise and if so do you think this has affected you much? And yes I only focus on this thread. Even seeing some titles of other threads is enough to trigger the anxiety, underlying or not. (i.e. Insomnia for xxx amount of years!) Keep it up Steve, you’re doing better.

[Author]

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