[Steve]

So they say. I was stressed out by a lot going on in my life at the time but the triggers are all gone. Only the insomnia remains. Sometimes I wonder if it something didn’t happen during the surgery to cause this.

I always had a problem with not going to bed until I am really sleepy as a lot of times, it’s hard for me to feel that and I would be awake all night. Also, Martin says to keep your SW no less than 5.5 hours. That always confused me. If I waited until I was sleepy, I would be well less than that 5.5 which he recommends. Even doing the SC puts me under the 5.5 so I’m not sure if I should just go to bed at the beginning of my SW and hope I fall asleep or wait and be under the 5.5. Any thoughts?

[KarenP]

Feel the need to chime in here.  2 weeks ago I finished my 8 week course with Martin.  I had done a prior online course of CBT-I without online support like Martin provides, so this was really my 2nd round of SR and SC.  I was making progress this last time until the final week of Martins course, and then the wheels fell off.  I deal with anxiety, and was feeling really depressed about ending the course and falling apart.  Truth be told, I had to travel out town 2 times and that’s when my sleep fell apart.  Both trips were anxiety producing. Had a 2 hr nite and a 1 hr nite.  Without Martin’s encouragement, I don’t know what I would have done.  I started to explore ACT after reading about it in this forum, and it really messed me up.  I recommitted myself to CBT-I and have been sleeping 5 – 6 hours a night for last week.  I even moved back into bed with my husband for the first time in 4 months!  I’m doing things differently this time.

1. Not looking at all at the clock!  Guesstimate your sleep time.

2. Trying to not obsess about my insomnia.  This is hard, I’m trying to be more relaxed about the whole thing.  My bout of insomnia only started in January, and I let it rule my life until fairly recently.  Ie. not going out with friends at night etc.

3. I finally found a really good book that I look forward to reading when I get up.  That makes a huge difference for me.

4.  Stick to your sleep window!!  No excuses!

5.  The relaxation exercises work.  Practice them every day!  I use the breathing exercise when I’m anxious during the day.

I trust this process, and am prepared to have bad nights, but I will hold fast to this program.   My best to all of you.

[delv-x]

Hi Karen,

Thank you for your post and your encouragement and tips. I’ve had just a good stretch the last 6+ weeks and just the last few nights derailed. Last night slept for a little over an hour and just couldn’t really drop back to sleep. I’ve been doing sleep restriction the whole time but slacking on stimulus control. Last night however, I was up a bunch of times because I knew sleep was not possible. The good news is that when I got up I wasn’t frustrated and rather just the drill. I didn’t prepare a book or anything and just sat and petted the dog for 20 minutes or so and tried to go back to sleep.

The frustrating part is my body knows how to sleep but once in awhile it just doesn’t seem to want to and the other thing is these relapses just seem to come for no reason.

[Steve]

Thanks Karen. I do stick to the SW religiously. And I do SC most of the time. I modify it a bit so that if 30 minutes come around, I reassess to see if I might be able to fall back asleep. If I might, I stay in bed awhile but when I know I am not going to fall back asleep, I get up. Last night, I just sat in the dark and kept myself awake as I was to exhausted to read. Don’t get me wrong from my posts. I do believe in CBT-i and SR and SC. It’s just that it’s so frustrating to have a couple good nights and then to have a bad night like last night.

I am probably going to sign up with Martin very soon as I need the support. i am in another online CBT-i program (Sleepio – I received the subscription for free) but there is little support except among the “Community” and even that isn’t all that much. What online CBT-i program were you doing before you signed with Martin? I also was using ACT for awhile and it didn’t work well with me, either. That’s why I came back to CBT-i.

[KarenP]

Steve, I did Dr. Jacobs online course.  No personal touch at all.

You are right.  After 30 minutes if I don’t fall asleep, I assess whether I think sleep is possible or not.  If my heart is beating fast, and eyelids pop open, I get up, otherwise I might give it a few more minutes.  Don’t look at the clock!! I looked at the clock through almost all of Martin’s course and that was a setback.  I know I’ll have a bad night here and there.  Just need to accept that and stick to the program.  Also, don’t let a bad night ruin the next day.  After my last 2 hour night, I went to the gym with my husband and had a strenuous workout.  Staying busy, and living your life tells insomnia you are the boss!!!

[delv-x]

Steve, I find that when I do get up I am too exhausted to read as well or just not in the mood. I think one of the only thing I can do would be mindless colouring. I do the same when it comes to assessment. Often times I feel sleepy and just lay there and fall back to sleep within a few minutes. After what feels like 20-30 minutes or so if I feel awake and know sleep won’t come soon then Ill get out. If it’s on the fence iffy I will relax and give it more time.

What I hate about SC is that I am up all day long and looking forward to sleep. I’ve worked, read, played, cooked, cleaned during the dayetc. The last thing I want to do is more of any of that during my precious sleep window. Thankfully *knocks wood* that most nights I do sleep through most of it and don’t need to get out of bed. When I do, it sucks and I have a few days of that.

[Steve]

I don’t know how you do it. After a night like last night, I am too exhausted to exercise. Right now, I am trying to keep my eyes open at work. I am also a very bad estimator of time but I don’t clock watch. I will look at the clock once when I wake up or come back from the bathroom as well as once to see if I am near the 30 minute rule. Other than those times, that’s it. I truly can’t estimate time so if I did, my diary would be totally inaccurate.

[KarenP]

Martin needs to chime in here, but I totally stopped checking clock at all.  I was doing the same, timing my 30 minute rule. But that’s clock watching!  Knowing the time made me anxious.  I’m totally estimating everything.

[delv-x]

I will chime in based on my experience. I now avoid clock watching. I look at the time roughly when I go to bed so I get an idea of my time to bed. “Oh it’s just after midnight”. Then if I wake up and need to go to the bathroom or whatever I don’t look at the time. If it’s 1AM or 6AM it is irrelevant as I am in my sleep window. When I wake up naturally or by alarm clock that’s when I need to know the time. If I clock watch (even before insomnia) it would trigger thoughts about how much time I have left.

“I am still so sleepy and I really feel like another few hours but it’s 6:30am”

“I am so awake and it’s only 2AM what will I do”

With regards to diary, you really only need to log the number of awakenings and how long they lasted roughly. For the get out of bed rule, just judge it based on if you think you’ve been in bed too long and sleep does not seem to be imminent. If you are wide awake then it’s best to get out of bed.

Remember with sleep diary it’s about the overall trend and not the data accuracy for the one night.

[KarenP]

Well said!  Exactly.  No looking at clock at all. It has made a huge difference.  The confusion comes when we think we need to judge time perfectly by the clock.

[Deb]

It seems like most of us here have had a rough week. Me too. After the first 3 weeks of SR and SC, I thought I was well on my way to healing, falling asleep quickly and sleeping through the night 6 out of 7 nights by the third week. Then last week and this week have been a setback. So far this week I’ve only slept through the night once. Three other nights it took me 2 hours to fall asleep. Then last night I fell asleep right away, only to wake up 1.5 hours too early. Oh well. It’s very frustrating, but at least my anxiety is way down. But I’m tired of being tired, averaging just 5 hours of sleep per night.

 

[Steve]

Delv – You log the number of awakenings in your sleep diary? Are we keeping different diaries? I am using the one Martin gave me from his free sleep course. I have to honestly say that when I do look at the clock, it doesn’t bother me what time it is. No anxiety if I only have one more hour before the alarm goes off. That’s because I usually wake up around 4:00am anyway and can’t get back to sleep so I am usually up at that time. Maybe it would be more of a concern to me if I started sleeping through most of the SW. But at this point I’m not. I would think I would be more anxious if I didn’t know what time it was when I woke up. Right now, once I get to sleep, I can sleep for 3 to 4 hours which is nice. My problem is getting to sleep. If I can’t get to sleep in roughly a half hour, I know it’s going to be a bad night and I will be up and out of bed several times for SC.

I just want my life back. I want to ride my motorcycle again and date again. I can’t meet someone if I look and act like I haven’t slept all night. And it’s tough handling a motorcycle when your extremities have tremors in them from lack of sleep.

[delv-x]

I use the CBT-I coach app for Android. It’s free and I find it quick for me to enter it all in through that. Other sleep diaries will have slight variations with what data to log. If clock watching doesn’t bother you then go ahead. I know that if I focus too much on the time it makes things more difficult.

On days you feel pretty good you should take the motorcycle around the block. Sometimes fatigue gets in the way but the act of going out on the motorcycle will help and also brighten your day which can also help process the day and help you sleep better. Days that are fun I tend to sleep better than days where I dwelled on what I wanted to do but felt held back due to sleep. Obviously listen to your body and don’t ride if there are tremors.

[Steve]

Deb/Karen/Delv & Mac – What is your SW now? Mine is 5.5 from 11:45 to 5:15.

[Deb]

12:00-6:30

[Author]

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