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Hi Mona
Sometimes trying too hard can lead to more problems, especially when it comes to a problem like sleep where nobody ever has any control over. Too many efforts led to being restless all the time and over monitoring of results, which can make the insomnia worse. I remembered too when I signed up with Martin, I was also seeing several other therapists at the same time, both online and in person. But nothing improved, so I cancelled them all, gave up all efforts to improve and eventually got better because I was trying so much less. I slowly abandoned the struggle and recounciled with myself. This led to a place of inner peace. Do nothing except going to bed at regular times to slowly regain your confidence in sleeping naturally again is more than sufficient in many cases of insomnia. Insomnia by itself isn’t a problem, the fact that you had this for so long and yet are still able to come here, striving to seek answers, all and by whole, still living to this day is a great testament to this undeniable fact. Insomnia isn’t the problem, thinking that it is a problem becomes the problem. Makes any sense? Best wishes to you and good luck!Hello!
Allow me to share my experience since It’s been more than a year after I finished the course and I’m happy to report that I’ve sleeping well despite breaking many cbt-i rules now such as going to bed at fixed times (I now allow myself a range), no naps allowed (I occasionally take afternoon naps), getting out of bed if unable to fall asleep (I refuse to get out because my bed is so warm and comfortable and I prefer to play with my phone while in bed instead).
My answers to your questions:
1. Setbacks are common! Please don’t let this put you off because doing cbt-i and having a regular bedtime helps realign your circadian rhythm and anchors your sleep-wake cycle. Just go on your day as normal after both good and bad nights. Bad nights after good ones are extremely common and is a sure sign everything is working fine because this means the accumulated sleep drive is getting reduced after sleeping well. Learn to trust your own body, then you will find you are much more likely to get sleepy by a certain time in the evening only if your sleep schedule is pretty consistent on a daily basis.2. Yes, you can use your bed for anything fun! Although this is contrary to traditional cbt-i rules. So it doesn’t have to be reading in bed or anywhere else if you don’t enjoy it. And you don’t have to leave your bed either, it’s perfectly okay to stay and relax in bed, I do this all the time and always end up falling asleep. Trying to reestablish that loving connection with your bed is important. Ultimately sleep is something that can never be controlled by anyone or anything, even cbt-i because your body is in total control. Ultimately, the real objective is to be alright with being awake, be friends with wakefulness anytime and anywhere, which leads to leaving the struggle with insomnia behind and a path to inner peace and liberation. I think the ultimate objective is to break any connection between thoughts/actions to sleep and achieve neutrality where you stop obessesing about sleep and stop making groundless and baseless connections between your actions or thoughts to sleep.
I hope you find this useful and good luck!
Hello
I am sorry to hear about your brother’s issues. It’s probably better to consult your medical professionals than seeking advice in an online forum like this because nobody here is qualified to give medical or professional psychological advice, even more so without actually seeing the patient in person. Having suidical thoughts isn’t normal and needs urgent professional attention and counselling. Good luck, I hope he finds relief soon.Hi Mona
I’m sorry to hear about your issues. Is your depression/anxiety centered on insomnia or is it about other things in general? Unfortunately, nobody here is qualified to give a professional medical assessment on your condition, it is probably better to consult your medical professional in person.This forum is about cbt-i, which offers guidelines on how to improve sleep and make it more likely to happen via behavioral techniques and interventions. This includes things like setting a regular bedtime schedule, which makes you more likely to get sleepy by a certain time and getting out of bed whenever you can’t fall asleep. Note that cbt-i is never a sleep generator, sleep is always generated by your own body. In a general sense, sleep drive builds up the longer you go without it in the same way as hunger does the longer you go without eating. It is a natural homeostatic process which your body controls, like breathing, eating and regulating your body temperature. So this means everyone knows how to sleep, it is impossible to forget or lose this, we are just born with this innate ability and stays with us until we die. It is often when we actively try to control sleep in some way, like taking medications, or doing sleep efforts such as modifying our sleep patterns like going to bed earlier, allowing way more time in bed, meditation, drinking sleepy teas, taking melatonin,endlessly researching sleep on the internet, getting on forums such as this one in an effort to seek a fast cure or fix and etc, not achieving the desired results and getting stressed over it which makes it worse. Despair then sets in and spirals out of control.
In general, insomnia has two components to it, the first is the actual sleeplessness part and the second is purely psychological, which is a set of unhealthy, learnt and obessesive thoughts about sleep, which stems from a fear of poor sleep. Cbt-i is very effective in resolving the sleeplessness, usually within a few weeks but the psychological part is much harder and often continues indefinitely for many people. There is no way to overcome this, except allowing yourself to get used to that fear until you get desensitized by it that that it no longer bothers you and the fear of poor sleep slowly dissipates. Good luck and best wishes!
Maybe too much troubleshooting? Trying to solve an impossible problem. Sleep is something nobody has any control over, ever. It just happens when that person has been awake long enough, like getting hungry after not eating for too long. Trying to solve the sleep puzzle is like trying to figure out how to never be hungry again without ever eating, which is ridiculous. Your body knows how to sleep! Just like it knows how to eat. Have a regular bedtime and sufficient wakefulness built up during the day. That’s all you need! Good luck.
Hi daisho!
If you want to wake at 8 am, and by allowing a 7 hour sleep window, that means you should go to bed around 1 am. Or you can go to bed earlier but accept that you might not fall sleep fast. The idea is not to be stressed over being awake, and to be okay with that wakefulness. Makes any sense? Nothing can make you sleep except your own body and that, as I’ve said, depends on how long you’ve been awake. Best wishes to you!Hi daisho!
This is a common problem which happens when people go to bed with a weak or no sleep drive, aka, not sleepy. Sleepiness depends on quite many things, but the most important is sufficient time being awake. This is the single most important factor which determines how sleepy you get. Normal people usually feel sufficiently sleepy after 16 hours of continuous wakefulness, but to get really sleepy, 17-18 hours are even better. You also may have disrupted your sleep cycle by sleeping at irregular hours. But this can be remedied quite easily, just pick a time you want to wake up by, every day, and by subtracting 7 hours from it, you arrive at your bedtime. Keep to this timetable as much as you can to really anchor your sleep-wake cycle! Your body should respond quite nicely within a few weeks. Try not to stress over poor sleep too, learn to trust your own body, this really helps in recovery. Be patient, compassionate and kind to yourself, stay away from medications and fast cure gimmicks, adopting these steps, you should very well. Good luck!Greetings!
I am reading a lot many sleep efforts and too much attention paid to forcing yourself to sleep when you’re just not sleepy.Nothing helps you sleep except sufficient wakefulness. This is the universal truth about sleep. All you need is just regular bedtime hours and sufficient wakefulness to generate enough sleepiness to fall and stay asleep. It’s really that simple. Try staying awake longer and limiting your bedtime hours. Best wishes.
Hello Lauren!
You will never recover as long as you continue to fear poor sleep. It’s fear that’s keeping you trapped in the cycle. Go to bed expecting poor sleep, every night if you have to, until you just get used to it that it no longer bothers you. Sleepless nights can’t continue indefinitely but the fear can. And sleep is still going to happen regardless of how you feel, having this fear is just a bothersome burden you choose to carry because you just can’t let it go!Greetings!
Insomnia really has two components to it: the first is the actual sleeplessness and the second is the psychological part, which is a set of learnt, unhealthy and obsessive thoughts/behaviors about sleep.Cbti would usually resolve the sleeplessness part within a few weeks. For the psychological part, it has no deadline because it is self-perpetuating and can go on indefinitely. To get over that, you have to be extremely patient, and fully accepting of poor sleep until you just become desensitized by it naturally. People either continue to struggle for a long time because they are still afraid or they learnt to trust their own bodies completely and ultimately stop caring which leads to a place of peace. Good luck!
Hi Angeli!
So true. Insomnia really has two components to it: firstly, it’s the sleeplessness and the other part is the fear. Cbti cures the sleeplessness but not the fear. That’s why many people still have insomnia even after cbti, because the fear is still there! To cure the fear, you have to be willing to experience more fear, until you just get desensitized. Sounds ironic and paradoxical, but so true!Greetings!
You wrote a lengthy post but
in it, never mentioned a word why waking up during the night is so bad that you have to intervene. So what is so bad about waking up? Are your days much worse if you woke up then if you didn’t? If let’s say, you woke up 3x during the night, are your days going to be 3x worse or you would feel 3x as tired? Try to think rationally about this. The whole thing about insomnia is really about thinking why poor sleep has such a bad outcome that it must be avoided like the plague. Can you identify the reasons? Then find out if they’re true. Majority of the time they’re outright false and misguided! Other than that, no, you can’t control waking up as much as you can’t control sleeping. Your body is in total control. But not treating waking up as problem has a better chance of making you sleep better than otherwise! That’s just how insomnia works: the more you think there’s a problem, the worse it gets because thinking there’s a problem becomes the problem! Good luck in your journey to sleeping better.Hi Angeli!
Congratulations on your improvement. So great to hear you are doing so well after leaving the fight. And this is key to sleeping well, being relaxed and accepting of bad outcomes no matter how bad they seem. Forget about medications, meditatations and what nots. If you are pretty advanced like me, I’ve ditched cbti also and still sleeping well. Just trust your own body firmly, it knows what it is doing. Set a regular bedtime schedule, that’s it! I now just go to bed, when I can’t sleep immediately, I just think about random stuffs, then without noticing it, I’ve closed my eyes and fallen asleep. When I next open my eyes, it’s already morning and close to wakeup time. That’s how easy and effortless for me.Hello! If there’s anything you can learn here, it’s probably this. Frustration makes it worse. Impatience makes it worse. The only way out is complete acceptance, self-compassion and patience, lots of it! Other than that, continue going and getting out of bed at regular times, stop researching sleep or seeking fast tips/cures, you will do very well!
