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Hi Amanda, I am sorry that you are having such a tough time.
It can be so hard to think straight when we’re hammered by insomnia. Still, I see a lot of solid advice in the posts you have received. I know when I am really tired, it can be hard to slow my brain down to where I can actually read and absorb what people are telling me. I hope you can go back and read them again, just taking your time and not putting more pressure on yourself.
I would add one point. If I am reading between the lines correctly, it sounds like you get off a sleep schedule sometimes with partying. Sorry if I am off base here–disregard if I have this wrong. But if you are drinking a fair amount, especially late at night, it is a surefire way to botch up your sleep. I know from experience that while drinking definitely helps in the short run, it gets shorter and shorter.
Finally, you have written more than once that you don’t feel you can take it anymore. I totally get it, and I gave suicide a lot of consideration as a way out. If you are, calling a crisis line is a good plan. Google Crisis Line and it may take a little bit of rerouting, but you will find you are not alone in this. I used to work on one, and I think there is a new access number: 988. In any event, trust me on one point: these are people who want very much to talk with you, and you can be very candid and not worry about whether they can handle it. They can.
Like Scott says, setbacks can be disheartening. Unfortunately they seem to be part of the process. But no matter how bad it has gotten, you are not condemned to poor sleep forever. I know it can feel that way, but feelings are often not a very good barometer of the way things are. Yes, they are strong and so they seem convincing, but again, this can be the insomnia talking, things get so distorted.
I hope you can stick with this forum. Take care.
HI Kjonestx, well, the message I was typing to you sort of vanished, so let’s try again….
I used to think that we are at the mercy of whatever thought pops into our heads. I learned that we can hang back a bit and observe our thoughts, as if they are floating by on the river, rather than falling into the river and getting tossed about. And not to put so much stock in feelings, which I know seems counter-intuitive: as you say, “it feels like it is,” i.e. that insomnia is going to harm me.
1. I’m having the thought that I will never get over this; or
2. I will never get over this.There is a huge difference between 1 and 2, granted it can be hard to think straight and see it when you are really hammered from not sleeping. Maybe come back to it later…..
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi Awake, I did not take Martin’s CBT course, but I did go through a similar therapy program. Martin hits all the salient points.
My program went on for many years, but you should not assume your road will be that long at all (early trauma). What does matter is acknowledging that okay, you experience sleep anxiety sometimes but it is not an opponent out to destroy you. So easy for our thoughts to run crazy when exhausted.
I am confident you will get through this.
Hi Awake, I used to also think of insomnia as a powerful entity, a monster, which there was no way I could ever beat.
I can’t recall exactly how this concept faded away. I do know that I left tossing and turning behind. Like you did recently, I got up instead, realizing that after 15-20 minutes or so, that sleep wasn’t going to happening just now, so might as well get up.
Another piece which fell into place over time was realizing that when I was tired, my thoughts would get pretty wild, e.g. thinking of insomnia as an actual monster out to destroy me. And I started deciding not to take the thoughts that seriously, that it was just the insomnia talking.
And during the day, I would not deny that okay, I’m tired, but I decided this does not automatically mean that I’m tired, therefore I am a loser, or that life is sh-t. Just I’m tired, that’s it.
This can take time, and I totally get that you want to sleep well right now. Weird, but sleep is one of those things where trying harder does not work. But I do think sticking with this website is a good step. Take care.
Hi Tramie, it sounds like you are really going through it right now….
Your insomnia kicking in when your newborn was keeping you up is of course understandable. Maybe harder to deal with is, when the cause for situational insomnia starts to recede (kid starts sleeping through the night), why does the insomnia still hang around?
I think the neuroscientists talk about nerve pathways or whatever as an explanation for how our brains can get programmed this way or that. But also that it is possible to re-program out of this mess, with the likes of CBT. Which in turn does not come in and fix everything perfectly.
I am guessing that you know intellectually that CBT is something you just have to keep practicing—but it is hard to keep focused when you’re hammered day after day from inadequate sleep. And continuing in the vein of describing what you already know (sorry!), sleep anxiety keeps the messy cycle rolling.
You write “I am frustrated with myself….” I wonder if maybe you can acknowledge that it is frustrating to not sleep, without getting frustrated with yourself –i.e. not beating yourself up as if this means you are a failure. I totally get how we can feel like failures–sleep should just happen, other people sleep, why not me, am I a loser or what……maybe just acknowledging that you are having these thoughts without buying into them.
There is an enormous difference between:
1. “I’m having thoughts that I am a failure, I will never get over this;” and
2. “I am a failure, I will never get over this.”
So easy to gravitate to #2 when exhausted, but it’s not true.
I hope you stick with this website and check out Martin’s emails. Take care.
Hi Tired54, well, you have come to the right place.
For starters, I would say read the comments throughout the forum, particular the responses from Martin and mentors like Scott. Martin also sends emails on various subjects, especially around sleep anxiety–that revolving door we all get caught in sometimes (anxious so can’t sleep, than anxious that won’t be able to sleep, then fearing not being able to sleep, etc etc.)
A lot might seem like cliches, and it can seem repetitive. That doesn’t mean the maxims aren’t true. Examples: sleep is a natural process, fatigue comes upon us and our body then sleeps; thoughts can get in the way, and when we are tired the thoughts can get pretty crazy. They seem so powerful they must be true—thoughts like “I’ll never sleep well again, ever,” “I can’t handle this,” “I would rather die” etc etc. when actually it is just the insomnia talking.
Insomnia is hard. I find it is easier to handle if I can just deal with this moment, right here, right now—–rather than imagining what the rest of my life is going to be. And at bedtime tonight, acknowledging that sure, you would like to sleep well, but if you don’t, it will be disappointing but not automatically devastating.
Hi Aneli, I think most people do not fully understand what something is like if they have not personally experienced it. If you have never been pregnant; or if you have never been a refugee, or had chemotherapy, can you really understand?
No one sleeps well every night, so they may think they understand insomnia. They don’t: chronic insomnia is much worse.
While some people are cruel, most are just unaware. I try to accept this, and realize they probably struggle some other way in life that I do not fully understand or appreciate.
I hope you stay with this forum and look into Martin’s materials. Take care.
Hi LouMar8, I think you are onto something when you describe “the anxiety (insomnia) causes…”
Many nights of poor sleep would make me anxious about pretty much everything—how am I going to get this or that done, add to that thoughts about what people are thinking about me (usually they weren’t, of course); and as the next evening comes on, the anxiety would turn to how am I going to sleep tonight.
Sometimes the only thing that sort of worked was just slowing down to this nanosecond, then focusing on my next step, which might just be sitting here, or getting up and walking to get a glass, then putting some water in it, and then drinking it. Not really a technique, just getting through. And not all the nanoseconds are as tough as some of them. And then trying to do the same thing at bedtime. And when the anxiety kicks in—what if I don’t sleep tonight, I can’t handle this, etc.–just letting the thoughts pass through. And knowing that if you end up not getting much sleep and facing another day, knowing that you have done it many times.
Easier said, I know. But to the extent we can get out of the way, sleep will take care of itself. If it were something we could accomplish with effort, we probably would have licked this problem a long time ago.
Take care, and I hope you stick with this website.
Hi, maybehank, I can definitely relate to what you are saying, and RavenOfNight as well.
I am going to try to tread softly here because a lot of people I know really get their backs up to any reference to God, or Supreme Being, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, whatever name works or doesn’t work for you. And I can’t say I blame them, what with all the evil people have done while holding the Bible or the Koran or etc etc.
I will just tell you what happened to me one time, and you can take it for whatever you think it is worth.
I dealt with insomnia for 40+ years (doesn’t mean yours will go that long, I had huge childhood trauma, years of therapy, etc. etc.) Anyway, one time about 25 years into it, I woke up early after yet another lousy night of bad sleep. I was on vacation, in Maui, where everything is supposed to be wonderful, right? So I get up and am staring at my shoes and I don’t have the energy to deal with tying my shoelaces. And for the umpteenth time, I wished I was dead. Then I prayed for the strength to tie one of my shoes. Not both, just one shoe. Sort of like the AA motto, I guess–just for today, I will not drink—just for this moment, give me the strength to tie my shoelace on my left shoe.
Everything was not peachy after that. I had plenty of crappy nights for years after that. I still have some crappy nights; nobody sleeps great every night. It’s just about slogging through as best we can.
I know I eventually got the strength, with a similar prayer, to do the right shoe. But at the time, that was not in the picture. It was just about getting through the moment of dealing with my left shoe. Maybe like RavenOfNight alluded to, you have gotten through moment by moment as well.
Finally, you are not crazy. And I know it feels like it. Maybe there is something in realizing, “I am having the thought that I am going crazy and that I can’t take this anymore.” This is radically different from, “I am going crazy and I can’t take this anymore.” If you are having trouble seeing the difference at this moment, I submit it’s the insomnia talking.
I think we are survivors, doing pretty damn well in tough situations.
Hi folks, I think we are all on the same page here. Well, maybe different chapters on any given day, but the same book….
True, eventually your body will just fall asleep. You cannot force yourself to stay awake any more than you can force yourself not to breathe.
Also true, anxiety about whether you will sleep makes it harder to sleep.
And also true, it can be an up and down thing. It’s not like you break a bone, it takes a defined time to heal, then it’s healed, problem over.
When I hit a down period, I sometimes freak out for a while. Eventually, I remember what I have learned and can observe, “I am having the thought that >>>>I am sinking back into insomnia and that I am never going to get over this, etc.” And then I will think damn, how did I forget that part about prefacing my thoughts with “I’m having the thought that…..”
And then I give myself a break and remember that I forgot because I have been so hammered with not sleeping.
The good news is that over time, I seem to recall all of this after a few nights instead of several months.
I hope this helps. It can be a bear, but things can get better, even if it gets kind of choppy sometimes.
Hi Jeff_Nero, it sounds you are really going through the mill right now. Sometimes it seems like insomnia is the gift that keeps on giving, and the last gift you want.
What I mean is that it can perpetuate itself, where it seems like it will never end.
But the key word is “seems”—it is hard to think straight when you are exhausted. And the answer is not to think harder. Rather, it is not to take your thoughts seriously.
Thinking harder makes sense when trying to assemble a piece of furniture, but you can’t think your way to better sleep…..I hope you can slow down, acknowledge that “wow, okay, I’m tired” and acknowledge that all sorts of thoughts are flying through your head (“I’ll never get over this,” etc etc.) without buying into them solely because you feel strongly that way.
Mindfulness is a current fad. Still, the actual practice has been around for centuries, and emphasizes watching the mind rather than getting caught up in the swirl, to the point where you’re only as good as your last thought. A couple of websites; palousemindfulness.com and mindfulness northwest.com There and elsewhere, you will have to sift to find what resonates for you.
And I hope you stick with this site and check out comments, especially from Martin and mentors on the site.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi, Amiemp, sorry to hear you are having a tough time. Sleep anxiety is a struggle, then covid on top of that.
It probably doesn’t feel like progress, but you have learned a key component: there is no medication which will guarantee great sleep over the long term. In fact, there is nothing–meds. or otherwise—which will guarantee great sleep.
Wonderful. So now what?
One step could be stepping back a bit and noticing your thoughts. You are not your thoughts; they really are separate, they are mental constructs generated from neurotransmitters. A lot of them are quite helpful, such as the thought which leads your right foot to step on the brake pedal when the pedestrian walks in front of you.
Other thoughts are not so helpful, and it can help to see them as drifting by through your head.
(More like whizzing by, when you are really stressed out.) Thoughts like: I’m having the thought that since I had covid, I am going to get long covid; or I’m having the thought that the stuff I found on the Internet is automatically true; or I’m having the thought that if I feel strongly that I am helpless, then it means I am helpless.Watching your thoughts go by might sound ridiculous. Especially when you can’t sleep. My point is that we all get all sorts of weird sh__ flying through our heads, and it helps to step back and note that’s what is happening, rather than automatically buy into it. And that it’s hard to think straight when you’re tired.
What I am describing is mindfulness, which is kind of a fad right now so there is some flaky stuff floating around. But beyond that, it has been around for 3,000 years or so. In Western medicine, it is finally starting to gain some traction for people who are struggling but don’t necessarily need long term therapy. Martin can correct me if need be, but I think his course on cognitive behavior therapy for insomnia (CBT-i) is geared this way. Same with his emails and also a lot of the comments you see on this forum from people who are traveling the same road as you.
All this doesn’t mean perpetual serenity and great sleep every night. It does not make everything certain. What long covid really involves–which genetic type is more likely to contract, with which symptoms, to what degree, for how long…. could be this, could be that, etc., much the same as will this or that political leader launch a nuclear weapon. None of which is pleasant to think about. But I think there is value in acknowledging that life is uncertain—rather than spinning endlessly into “what if………”
Take care, you are not alone in this!
Hi Ines, is it possible for you to consult with a doctor or other health care professional? It would be good to rule out any type of heart trouble, for example. If you google Crisis Line or Crisis Connections, or at least in some parts of the USA, dial 211, you can get in touch with someone (it can be a tedious search, requiring patience and energy). A couple of reliable medical websites: WebMD and Mayo Clinic.
If it turns out you have no heart or other problems, this does not mean you are making up your symptoms: if it hurts, it hurts. It just means that the source might be some sort of anxiety or emotional upset. Again, this requires some exploration.
And it might turn out that the anxiety is about sleep itself. Does it seem to occur primarily when you are getting ready to go to sleep?
You are not alone in this type of search. And if it seems more and more confusing, try not to be hard on yourself. Poor sleep can tend to make problems seem bigger and bigger, even insurmountable. They’re not, that’s just the insomnia talking.
I hope you stay with this website, along with exploring where the physical pains might be coming from.
Hi, Steve95, there are a number of do’s and don’s, referred to as sleep hygiene, e.g. don’t drink coffee late in evening, limit computer screen use before bed, generally try to wind down before bedtime. If you still have problems, you could be getting into the area of sleep anxiety, that is obsessing about sleep—how long will it take, will I be rested, how can I deal with this, etc. Thoughts about all this getting out of control, instead of being able to step back and observe thoughts passing through, without putting so much stock in them.
I hope you respond to mentor ScottJ and check out Martin’s emails about all this. Figuring out how to sleep is not as straightforward as navigating from A to B with map, compass and GPS. Accepting this is a big piece.
Take care.
Hi Momup, I can relate to your sensitivity about noise. I can’t claim to be an expert on this, but I do know people who can’t sleep well if it is too quiet! (They grew up in New York City.) For myself, I have noticed that during the day, I can get quite annoyed at e.g. loud neighbors, loud people on the bus, etc. But sometimes the same noise doesn’t bother me. It’s like I just let it happen, it is just part of the background of life. Or the phone ringing at work: sometimes it drove me crazy, the constant interruptions; and other times, it just meant I addressed something now (the caller) rather than calling them later on my own schedule
Fine, but what about when you are trying to sleep? To some extent, I think the attitude shift I am describing applies during sleep time as well. But it’s also true most of us cannot sleep well with lots of noise….I just googled “white noise sleep aids” and stuff pops up. I have used some devices and found them useful.
.As far as noise “stressing my subconscious,” again, I think it is more attitude than anything: in other words, the key is not the noise, but how you react to it.
Finally, insomnia can really scramble your head. For example, turns out I didn’t sleep all that great last night. And I wake up thinking about how I got cut from the high school baseball team 50 years ago. And I actually started rolling into this idea of what a failure I am. What’s with that? Answer: it’s just the insomnia talking. And insomnia can lead anywhere, including getting on the Internet and believing anything.
I hope you stick with this forum. There are people here who have really been through it. And Martin’s course and emails address the underlying theme of our attitude about sleep, aka sleep anxiety.
Take care, you are not alone.
