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Hi Tramie, it sounds like you are really going through it right now….
Your insomnia kicking in when your newborn was keeping you up is of course understandable. Maybe harder to deal with is, when the cause for situational insomnia starts to recede (kid starts sleeping through the night), why does the insomnia still hang around?
I think the neuroscientists talk about nerve pathways or whatever as an explanation for how our brains can get programmed this way or that. But also that it is possible to re-program out of this mess, with the likes of CBT. Which in turn does not come in and fix everything perfectly.
I am guessing that you know intellectually that CBT is something you just have to keep practicing—but it is hard to keep focused when you’re hammered day after day from inadequate sleep. And continuing in the vein of describing what you already know (sorry!), sleep anxiety keeps the messy cycle rolling.
You write “I am frustrated with myself….” I wonder if maybe you can acknowledge that it is frustrating to not sleep, without getting frustrated with yourself –i.e. not beating yourself up as if this means you are a failure. I totally get how we can feel like failures–sleep should just happen, other people sleep, why not me, am I a loser or what……maybe just acknowledging that you are having these thoughts without buying into them.
There is an enormous difference between:
1. “I’m having thoughts that I am a failure, I will never get over this;” and
2. “I am a failure, I will never get over this.”
So easy to gravitate to #2 when exhausted, but it’s not true.
I hope you stick with this website and check out Martin’s emails. Take care.
Hi Tired54, well, you have come to the right place.
For starters, I would say read the comments throughout the forum, particular the responses from Martin and mentors like Scott. Martin also sends emails on various subjects, especially around sleep anxiety–that revolving door we all get caught in sometimes (anxious so can’t sleep, than anxious that won’t be able to sleep, then fearing not being able to sleep, etc etc.)
A lot might seem like cliches, and it can seem repetitive. That doesn’t mean the maxims aren’t true. Examples: sleep is a natural process, fatigue comes upon us and our body then sleeps; thoughts can get in the way, and when we are tired the thoughts can get pretty crazy. They seem so powerful they must be true—thoughts like “I’ll never sleep well again, ever,” “I can’t handle this,” “I would rather die” etc etc. when actually it is just the insomnia talking.
Insomnia is hard. I find it is easier to handle if I can just deal with this moment, right here, right now—–rather than imagining what the rest of my life is going to be. And at bedtime tonight, acknowledging that sure, you would like to sleep well, but if you don’t, it will be disappointing but not automatically devastating.
Hi Aneli, I think most people do not fully understand what something is like if they have not personally experienced it. If you have never been pregnant; or if you have never been a refugee, or had chemotherapy, can you really understand?
No one sleeps well every night, so they may think they understand insomnia. They don’t: chronic insomnia is much worse.
While some people are cruel, most are just unaware. I try to accept this, and realize they probably struggle some other way in life that I do not fully understand or appreciate.
I hope you stay with this forum and look into Martin’s materials. Take care.
Hi LouMar8, I think you are onto something when you describe “the anxiety (insomnia) causes…”
Many nights of poor sleep would make me anxious about pretty much everything—how am I going to get this or that done, add to that thoughts about what people are thinking about me (usually they weren’t, of course); and as the next evening comes on, the anxiety would turn to how am I going to sleep tonight.
Sometimes the only thing that sort of worked was just slowing down to this nanosecond, then focusing on my next step, which might just be sitting here, or getting up and walking to get a glass, then putting some water in it, and then drinking it. Not really a technique, just getting through. And not all the nanoseconds are as tough as some of them. And then trying to do the same thing at bedtime. And when the anxiety kicks in—what if I don’t sleep tonight, I can’t handle this, etc.–just letting the thoughts pass through. And knowing that if you end up not getting much sleep and facing another day, knowing that you have done it many times.
Easier said, I know. But to the extent we can get out of the way, sleep will take care of itself. If it were something we could accomplish with effort, we probably would have licked this problem a long time ago.
Take care, and I hope you stick with this website.
Hi, maybehank, I can definitely relate to what you are saying, and RavenOfNight as well.
I am going to try to tread softly here because a lot of people I know really get their backs up to any reference to God, or Supreme Being, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, whatever name works or doesn’t work for you. And I can’t say I blame them, what with all the evil people have done while holding the Bible or the Koran or etc etc.
I will just tell you what happened to me one time, and you can take it for whatever you think it is worth.
I dealt with insomnia for 40+ years (doesn’t mean yours will go that long, I had huge childhood trauma, years of therapy, etc. etc.) Anyway, one time about 25 years into it, I woke up early after yet another lousy night of bad sleep. I was on vacation, in Maui, where everything is supposed to be wonderful, right? So I get up and am staring at my shoes and I don’t have the energy to deal with tying my shoelaces. And for the umpteenth time, I wished I was dead. Then I prayed for the strength to tie one of my shoes. Not both, just one shoe. Sort of like the AA motto, I guess–just for today, I will not drink—just for this moment, give me the strength to tie my shoelace on my left shoe.
Everything was not peachy after that. I had plenty of crappy nights for years after that. I still have some crappy nights; nobody sleeps great every night. It’s just about slogging through as best we can.
I know I eventually got the strength, with a similar prayer, to do the right shoe. But at the time, that was not in the picture. It was just about getting through the moment of dealing with my left shoe. Maybe like RavenOfNight alluded to, you have gotten through moment by moment as well.
Finally, you are not crazy. And I know it feels like it. Maybe there is something in realizing, “I am having the thought that I am going crazy and that I can’t take this anymore.” This is radically different from, “I am going crazy and I can’t take this anymore.” If you are having trouble seeing the difference at this moment, I submit it’s the insomnia talking.
I think we are survivors, doing pretty damn well in tough situations.
Hi folks, I think we are all on the same page here. Well, maybe different chapters on any given day, but the same book….
True, eventually your body will just fall asleep. You cannot force yourself to stay awake any more than you can force yourself not to breathe.
Also true, anxiety about whether you will sleep makes it harder to sleep.
And also true, it can be an up and down thing. It’s not like you break a bone, it takes a defined time to heal, then it’s healed, problem over.
When I hit a down period, I sometimes freak out for a while. Eventually, I remember what I have learned and can observe, “I am having the thought that >>>>I am sinking back into insomnia and that I am never going to get over this, etc.” And then I will think damn, how did I forget that part about prefacing my thoughts with “I’m having the thought that…..”
And then I give myself a break and remember that I forgot because I have been so hammered with not sleeping.
The good news is that over time, I seem to recall all of this after a few nights instead of several months.
I hope this helps. It can be a bear, but things can get better, even if it gets kind of choppy sometimes.
Hi Jeff_Nero, it sounds you are really going through the mill right now. Sometimes it seems like insomnia is the gift that keeps on giving, and the last gift you want.
What I mean is that it can perpetuate itself, where it seems like it will never end.
But the key word is “seems”—it is hard to think straight when you are exhausted. And the answer is not to think harder. Rather, it is not to take your thoughts seriously.
Thinking harder makes sense when trying to assemble a piece of furniture, but you can’t think your way to better sleep…..I hope you can slow down, acknowledge that “wow, okay, I’m tired” and acknowledge that all sorts of thoughts are flying through your head (“I’ll never get over this,” etc etc.) without buying into them solely because you feel strongly that way.
Mindfulness is a current fad. Still, the actual practice has been around for centuries, and emphasizes watching the mind rather than getting caught up in the swirl, to the point where you’re only as good as your last thought. A couple of websites; palousemindfulness.com and mindfulness northwest.com There and elsewhere, you will have to sift to find what resonates for you.
And I hope you stick with this site and check out comments, especially from Martin and mentors on the site.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi, Amiemp, sorry to hear you are having a tough time. Sleep anxiety is a struggle, then covid on top of that.
It probably doesn’t feel like progress, but you have learned a key component: there is no medication which will guarantee great sleep over the long term. In fact, there is nothing–meds. or otherwise—which will guarantee great sleep.
Wonderful. So now what?
One step could be stepping back a bit and noticing your thoughts. You are not your thoughts; they really are separate, they are mental constructs generated from neurotransmitters. A lot of them are quite helpful, such as the thought which leads your right foot to step on the brake pedal when the pedestrian walks in front of you.
Other thoughts are not so helpful, and it can help to see them as drifting by through your head.
(More like whizzing by, when you are really stressed out.) Thoughts like: I’m having the thought that since I had covid, I am going to get long covid; or I’m having the thought that the stuff I found on the Internet is automatically true; or I’m having the thought that if I feel strongly that I am helpless, then it means I am helpless.Watching your thoughts go by might sound ridiculous. Especially when you can’t sleep. My point is that we all get all sorts of weird sh__ flying through our heads, and it helps to step back and note that’s what is happening, rather than automatically buy into it. And that it’s hard to think straight when you’re tired.
What I am describing is mindfulness, which is kind of a fad right now so there is some flaky stuff floating around. But beyond that, it has been around for 3,000 years or so. In Western medicine, it is finally starting to gain some traction for people who are struggling but don’t necessarily need long term therapy. Martin can correct me if need be, but I think his course on cognitive behavior therapy for insomnia (CBT-i) is geared this way. Same with his emails and also a lot of the comments you see on this forum from people who are traveling the same road as you.
All this doesn’t mean perpetual serenity and great sleep every night. It does not make everything certain. What long covid really involves–which genetic type is more likely to contract, with which symptoms, to what degree, for how long…. could be this, could be that, etc., much the same as will this or that political leader launch a nuclear weapon. None of which is pleasant to think about. But I think there is value in acknowledging that life is uncertain—rather than spinning endlessly into “what if………”
Take care, you are not alone in this!
Hi Ines, is it possible for you to consult with a doctor or other health care professional? It would be good to rule out any type of heart trouble, for example. If you google Crisis Line or Crisis Connections, or at least in some parts of the USA, dial 211, you can get in touch with someone (it can be a tedious search, requiring patience and energy). A couple of reliable medical websites: WebMD and Mayo Clinic.
If it turns out you have no heart or other problems, this does not mean you are making up your symptoms: if it hurts, it hurts. It just means that the source might be some sort of anxiety or emotional upset. Again, this requires some exploration.
And it might turn out that the anxiety is about sleep itself. Does it seem to occur primarily when you are getting ready to go to sleep?
You are not alone in this type of search. And if it seems more and more confusing, try not to be hard on yourself. Poor sleep can tend to make problems seem bigger and bigger, even insurmountable. They’re not, that’s just the insomnia talking.
I hope you stay with this website, along with exploring where the physical pains might be coming from.
Hi, Steve95, there are a number of do’s and don’s, referred to as sleep hygiene, e.g. don’t drink coffee late in evening, limit computer screen use before bed, generally try to wind down before bedtime. If you still have problems, you could be getting into the area of sleep anxiety, that is obsessing about sleep—how long will it take, will I be rested, how can I deal with this, etc. Thoughts about all this getting out of control, instead of being able to step back and observe thoughts passing through, without putting so much stock in them.
I hope you respond to mentor ScottJ and check out Martin’s emails about all this. Figuring out how to sleep is not as straightforward as navigating from A to B with map, compass and GPS. Accepting this is a big piece.
Take care.
Hi Momup, I can relate to your sensitivity about noise. I can’t claim to be an expert on this, but I do know people who can’t sleep well if it is too quiet! (They grew up in New York City.) For myself, I have noticed that during the day, I can get quite annoyed at e.g. loud neighbors, loud people on the bus, etc. But sometimes the same noise doesn’t bother me. It’s like I just let it happen, it is just part of the background of life. Or the phone ringing at work: sometimes it drove me crazy, the constant interruptions; and other times, it just meant I addressed something now (the caller) rather than calling them later on my own schedule
Fine, but what about when you are trying to sleep? To some extent, I think the attitude shift I am describing applies during sleep time as well. But it’s also true most of us cannot sleep well with lots of noise….I just googled “white noise sleep aids” and stuff pops up. I have used some devices and found them useful.
.As far as noise “stressing my subconscious,” again, I think it is more attitude than anything: in other words, the key is not the noise, but how you react to it.
Finally, insomnia can really scramble your head. For example, turns out I didn’t sleep all that great last night. And I wake up thinking about how I got cut from the high school baseball team 50 years ago. And I actually started rolling into this idea of what a failure I am. What’s with that? Answer: it’s just the insomnia talking. And insomnia can lead anywhere, including getting on the Internet and believing anything.
I hope you stick with this forum. There are people here who have really been through it. And Martin’s course and emails address the underlying theme of our attitude about sleep, aka sleep anxiety.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi ahryan2011, I can relate to insomnia feeling like a lonely battle. Actually on any given day, there are millions of people who slept poorly the previous night, even for a lot of nights. I have found that when I sleep poorly, my thoughts can really go haywire–along the lines of ‘nobody can relate to what I’m going through, etc.’
So it might be helpful to check out Martin’s course so you can get some structure into what to do next. And this also addresses sleep anxiety, as you put it, developing “quite a fear of not sleeping.” This is a fear that doesn’t need a specific cause. Maybe yours originated in the anxiety disorder you describe. No matter. Once it shows up, it can take on a life of its own.
I know the VA has really gotten into mindfulness meditation for chronic pain and PTSD. And it can deal with insomnia, too. I think your therapist can steer you toward some resources. Everyone who tries it will find this or that source resonates more than others. Example of one free site I have found useful: palousemindfulness.com
I know mindfulness has become something of a fad, but it has been around for centuries. No serious practitioner will claim it is a cure-all for anything. (Would that life were that easy…) But it does provide some tools for not buying into every thought that just pops into your head: watching your thoughts pass by instead of moving in with them.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi Cathy, suggest you touch base with Martin on your CBTi regimen.
And sleep anxiety is always a big part of it. And it’s true there are ups and downs.
Most of the time, when I wake up early and don’t get back to sleep right away, I realize that my thoughts are going haywire. Example: last night, I woke up around 2:30 am., couldn’t get back to sleep. After a few minutes of worrying about it, I realized my thoughts were making things harder. Who knows why, but the memory of getting a lousy evaluation at work 30 years ago popped into my head. And the conclusion that “I am a failure.”
This time, I was fortunate to remember that this is just a feeling: “I’m having the feeling that I’m a failure.” This is much different than: “I am a failure.”
I was about to just get up anyway. Laying there worrying doesn’t do me any good. This time, I actually fell back asleep, but sometimes I don’t.
Who knows what pops into any of our heads. It could be that your thoughts will center on how you are doing with CBTi, are you timing things right. And your option would be along the lines of:
1. I am not doing my sleep therapy right and it isn’t going to work and I am doomed to lousy sleep. as opposed to:
2. I’m having the thought that I am not doing my sleep therapy right. I’m having the thought that this isn’t going to work, and that I am doomed to lousy sleep.
If this seems like a distinction without any real difference, allow for the fact that it is really hard to think clearly enough to see distinctions when you are tired. When I am having a tough day(s) after bad sleep, I try to give myself a break along the lines of, “Wow, I am really hammered right now. And I feel like I could get irritable over just about anything, and my brain feels kind of scrambled. And then I just try to do the best I can. What else you gonna do, right?
Take care, it doesn’t last forever, and you are not even close to alone on this. Everybody else might look like they are totally together, but they’re not.
Hi Dan, I think Jim has covered this well. I think mindfulness meditation helped the most—not necessarily to sleep better, though I think that was a fringe benefit sometimes—but mostly on how to cope. Knowing that you just have to get through this moment. Yes, there will be tough moments in the future, but not every moment, and you learn to deal with them when they occur in the present moment only.
I also learned not to live in my thoughts or take them too seriously. Especially when you are exhausted and you’re not thinking straight. E.g., I learned there is a profound difference between:
1. “I can’t deal with this, if this keeps up, who knows, maybe I will just kill myself;”
and
2. “I’m having the thought that I can’t deal with this; I’m having the thought that if this keeps up, who knows, maybe I will just kill myself.”
Thoughts just pop up into your head, and they can get more convoluted when you’re really hammered from insomnia. Regardless how strong they seem, you don’t have to buy into them.
One caveat is that if you find you are in a black hole for days at a time, all the time, it is good to consult with a mental health professional to determine whether it’s just an understandable bummed out feeling or actual clinical depression, aka major depression. There is no shame in taking an antidepressant; insomnia is an understandable example of situational depression. The antidepressant might provide some short-term relief from insomnia, but it will help clinical depression over the long term.
And Martin addresses sleep anxiety, really a key component in all this.
Hi Misa, I am sorry to hear you are going through a tough time right now.
It really can turn into a nasty cycle–wanting to sleep so badly, trying this or that, when it actually comes down to not trying. But what the hell does that mean, right?
I encourage you to stick with Martin’s website–to know you are not alone, and that this doesn’t have to last forever. It won’t. But it’s hard when you’re in the middle of it. And there is no medication which will guarantee good, consistent sleep, though sometimes they can help short term.
Over the long term, this course and the whole mindfulness idea of learning how to watch your thoughts rather than getting caught up in them is the key. Yeah, but how? One analogy might be your thoughts are like branches floating by on a river, maybe even roaring by. That is different than getting swept away by thoughts, being in the river yourself.
And on those days when you haven’t got much if any sleep the night before, can you ease up on yourself, maybe just note that “I’m having the thought that I am tired and anxious about sleeping tonight” as opposed to “I am tired and anxious about sleeping tonight–and I probably won’t sleep well, and this will never end, etc.” There really is a difference in these two thoughts, though I know it can be hard to see that when you are really hammered from insomnia. Hard to see, but true nonetheless.
Take care, you are not alone.
