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Hi nickpack, I am sorry to hear you are going through such a tough time.
It sounds like you know the sleep hygiene drill. In case you don’t know, another point is to avoid screen time before bedtime.
Doctors, especially M.D.s, are inclined to write you a prescription for this or that. I don’t know that you really get “addicted” to sleep meds as much as they offer only temporary relief at best. Not a bad thing when you are really up against it, but if there were a surefire drug to cure insomnia, you would have heard about it.
As far as research goes, the technical side has turned up only sleep apnea as a problem which medical engineering can solve via sleep studies and CPAP machines. Beyond that, insomnia is more esoteric, for lack of a better word. It defies solution in the way you solve things like crossword puzzles or how to fix an electrical circuit. I wish this were not so: I totally get just wanting to fix the damn thing once and for all.
I am glad you joined this site. For starters, you will see you are not even close to alone in this. Beyond that, I think you will see from the comments and Martin’s emails/podcasts that obsessing about sleep is counter-productive. Sleep anxiety takes on a life of its own. You can probably understand this easily on an intellectual level, but it can really be a bear when you’re tired. So it can help to hear the message again.
I am having a bit of a setback right now. I am doing my best to accept where I am at this moment. That might sound kind of passive, but I know that trying harder to sleep and sliding into panic when I don’t will not work.
I would have preferred to have slept better last night, but I am going to find some good spots to enjoy today anyway and not be too hard on myself. I hope you can, too.
Hi Fifi, it sounds like you are really going through the mill right now. I can totally relate to trying to think your way out of insomnia and then telling your brain to stop thinking. The truth is that thinking does not cure insomnia, it can get in the way, plus you can’t stop thinking.
So what to do? For me, I have done best when I realize that okay, my thoughts are flying all over the place, especially when I’m hammered after several nights of poor sleep. And sometimes I have gotten so tired that I have just let the thoughts fly through my head, as in okay, you thoughts are going to keep zipping around, I can’t seem to “think” you out of here….but at the same time, I realize later that I guess I stopped putting a lot of stock into what the thoughts were about. And damn if I didn’t sleep better. How crazy is that?
It’s sort of like it didn’t matter what the thoughts were, it was only when I bought into them that I had problems.
Hard to see this when you are really blitzed, and the thoughts seem to be bringing on a big catastrophe, when actually they are just bubbles. Eventually they just pop and you realize they didn’t amount to anything.
Take care, you are not alone in this. I hope you stay with the site. Besides realizing you are not alone, just hearing how people have dealt with insomnia can help. It might sound repetitive, but it seems we need to keep hearing it. It is so easy to lapse back into trying to think our way out.
Hi BBS, Just as others have responded to your post, I think it is helpful to check out other posts, especially those where Martin et al have responded. You might find the comments repetitive, but actually that is part of the drill. Some things you just have to hear or do over and over, and then get reminded.
This is especially so when it comes to setbacks, relapses, whatever you want to call it. It can be easy to slide into thinking, ‘oh no, I had this down, I was doing fine, what’s wrong with me, etc.’
Or another mindset is ‘ I am reading success stories, but I can’t seem to get anywhere, what’s wrong with me, I am stuck forever in this, etc.’
In both cases, it’s the insomnia talking. I just had to get reminded again this week.
Hi ksglow56, I can relate. You seem to be the only person who is not able to sleep. And you go to the store or work, and it seems like everybody is rested and refreshed. That no one knows what you are going through, what is wrong with me, etc.
Basically, that is the insomnia talking. Not only are you tired, but you get all sorts of whacked-out thoughts running through your head. The truth is there are millions of us out here every day who are hammered tired and just trying to make it through the day somehow.
I hope you stick with this site. You will find plenty of stories like yours. And not just laments, but tips on how to see insomnia as a temporary symptom, like a cold. Hard to see it as temporary when it keeps hanging around, but so much depends on how we feel about it. Is it just a situation at the moment, or are we giving it power by obsessing about it, and trying to think our way out of it.
You are not alone in this, not even close.
Hi bearescape, it sounds like you have figured out a big piece already—that “trying to control my sleep” doesn’t work. If you are ready to embrace CBTi, and yet have not started, perhaps you could touch base with Martin to explore if/why you are hesitating.
Hi lukekwinarko, you might want to check out Martin’s sleep restriction tips and his emails and podcasts. I think part of the program involves going to bed at a certain time and getting up at a certain time, regardless how well you slept. But I would refer you to his materials.
Beyond the specific program he outlines, as a general longterm rule, I have found that keeping track of the time hasn’t worked that well. Of course if you have time-sensitive obligations, e.g. having to get to work at a certain time, you cannot ignore the clock. But to the extent possible, I have found that I did better when i stopped calculating.
Actually the thing which disturbed my sleep the most was thinking about how my sleep was disturbed. And then thinking about it some more, and then trying to stop thinking about it. And realizing that made me think about it all the more. I still can get into this mindset, until I realize for the 10,000th time that it’s best just to acknowledge I am thinking about it and let it be. Which does not guarantee better sleep the next night, but it has been the best alternative over time.
Hi NikC14, it sounds like you are going through it right now. I should start off by saying I am not a medical professional. I think the longest I stayed awake was 60-70 hours at some point. There also have been times when I thought I was awake, eventually getting up, feeling like I had not slept at all, only to be told I was snoring periodically. As far as I can tell, the body does shut down to some extent, even if it is not restful sleep.
Perhaps more to the point, there were plenty of times when I wished I would die rather than continue with insomnia. This stemmed from my thoughts going haywire from exhaustion—and worse, buying into the thoughts, again from exhaustion.
Sleep meds can help short term, though doctors often will write a prescription and not want to address underlying emotional causes. And no medication will guarantee good sleep long term, and they can be dangerous if abused.
I hope you can stay with this site to check out Martin’s materials, and also to see that you are not alone. Any given morning, millions of people are hammered from poor sleep the night before. I dealt with insomnia for decades (doesn’t mean you will, had to work through early trauma, etc.), but even now, sometimes I don’t sleep all that great. It happens, and it can continue on into a nasty stretch when my brain gets scrambled and I forget all I have learned about letting thoughts just be, instead of buying into them.
It is easy to buy into the idea that I haven’t slept well night after night, therefore I am condemned to a lifetime like this. ……even though it isn’t true.
Hi Kmm, first, it’s a good idea to check through this site. Please do not think that because no one has responded to your specific post, that no one cares. Rather, you can see there are a lot of posts to reply to. Any given night, millions of people are not sleeping well. So you’re not alone by a long shot.
It sounds like you have identified some reasons for not sleeping well. Working on a master’s thesis is enough to stress anybody out. Add to that relationship issues. Then meds.
Re the meds, pharmacist are the best source for info on side effects. Many drugs contribute to insomnia, so sometimes you have to balance the benefit of the drug given such an unpleasant side effect. Also know that there is no drug which will guarantee good, long term sleep. If there were, you would see people lined up for blocks.
I think the biggest plus of this site is Martin’s emphasis on how thoughts enter the picture. The thesis, or relationship trouble, even the insomnia itself, doesn’t automatically lead to the loss of hope you describe. The culprit is the recurring thought about what insomnia means–rather, what you think it means. I know when I would be hammered from lack of sleep, my mind would drift to despair, along the lines of “this is hopeless,” “I wish I was dead,” “maybe I should kill myself,” etc. Powerful thoughts that seem true because they’re so powerful.
But they are not true. Instead, they are just thoughts drifting through your head, and they are easy to latch onto and believe when you’re too tired to think straight. With considerable practice, I was able to recognize the enormous difference between:
1. It’s hopeless, I should just die; and
2. I’m having the thought that it’s hopeless, I should just die.Prefacing with “I’m having the thought that…” can provide some distance, so you can observe your thoughts rather than automatically buy into them.
Like I said, you are not alone. Stay with us.
Hi Shlokless, I think you can benefit from CBT-I. And it looks like you are already making progress, even if it may not seem that way.
You have recognized a source of situational insomnia, namely medical school exams. And that regardless of source, sleep anxiety can move in and carry insomnia forward on its own.
For me, the key has been to step back and note my thoughts about insomnia, e.g. having thoughts about why can’t I sleep, I can’t deal with this, etc. Basically thoughts recurring—and recognizing they are just thoughts drifting through my head, like clouds through the sky.
It’s harder when you are tired, and it seems like you become your thoughts. But this is an illusion, albeit sometimes a powerful one.
Final point: trying hard to sleep doesn’t work. No doubt you have worked hard to get as far as you are, but this is one area where letting go is key. Yes, easier said than done, but for what it’s worth, I think you are going to make it through this.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi Claudia22, I am sorry you are going through this. You write that you “always think that no one and nothing will ever help me.” That is not true, but millions of us can relate: when you are hammered from lack of sleep, powerful (but false) thoughts can rage through your head.
It sounds like you are dealing with some difficult physical health problems. That is certainly the start of situational insomnia–an actual event or condition that is tough to deal with. But it’s the emotions that take and run with it.
“Sometimes I cannot control my emotions at night”…… a few things are certain, and one is that you can forget about controlling your emotions. Take the anger you describe. Sure, you don’t want to act out on anger via eg. a road rage incident, but as for preventing yourself from being angry, forget it. I think you have a better shot at trying to step back and watch the anger and other emotions. I know, easier said than done, when you are swirling in them and you’re exhausted. But it’s the way to let your emotions be, whatever they are, so your body doesn’t have to carry them.
Martin’s course, and podcasts/emails address this more fully. I hope you will stay with this site and come to realize that you are not alone in this. Even when it feels that way.
Hi MCODad, have you considered sleep apnea? A sleep medicine doctor can diagnose it with a sleep study. Essentially it measures how many times per hour your breathing is impaired. Usually this means the patient is not sleeping well. Even if you are feeling rested in the morning, the breathing interruptions can lead to gasping and snoring.
A CPAP takes some getting used to. But if it helps keep your breathing steady, you could sleep with your wife again, so that’s a plus.
Excess weight can contribute to snoring, but even slim people can develop sleep apnea, so it might be worth checking out. I think most insurance plans cover sleep studies…..if you have been to an airport lately, you might have noticed lots of people carrying small square gray briefcases. They are CPAPs.
Hi Purllearyes, wow, a lot going on. You have certainly given this a lot of thought.
I wonder if a sleep study would at least provide some neurological evidence of what is going on when you are asleep—or as you describe it, at least unconscious. I know you don’t think it’s apnea. But a sleep study would establish that definitively one way or the other.
You mention that you have tried sleep schedules. But as you say, your body goes into “emergency mode” to get real sleep after feeling unrested for several days. It might be worth exploring Martin’s plan for sleep restriction. I think he addresses what you are going through.
I know from experience that depression leads to insomnia, usually early morning awakening. Even if you are unconscious, obviously you are not getting restful sleep. That plus the chronic anxiety since childhood. If it is like what I experienced, it kind of perpetuates itself: an unpleasant memory can pop in your head and you can feel like you are at its mercy.
All those thoughts trying to figure out what is wrong are certainly understandable. But in my own struggle, I found that while it helped to catalog what might be causing insomnia, I could never think my way out of it. So the thoughts for me were kind of a mixed blessing. What I found most helpful was being able to step back from my thoughts and observe them from a bit of a distance. This includes unpleasant memories popping into my head.
And yes, I know that stepping back and observing is hard when you are really blitzed. It can seem like everything you are thinking has to be true because well, it feels that way. Even though it is just the insomnia talking.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi NikC14, it sounds like you are really going through it big time.
For starters, I hope you are not shy about calling the Crisis Line. I volunteered there a few years ago, and we often got repeat callers who needed a boost to get through rough spots. I have heard there is now a national number –988– in the USA, anyway. But if you google Crisis Line, you will get through. You may also live where dialing 211 will put you in touch with community resources.
I totally relate to the constant ruminating thoughts. They are an understandable result from not sleeping: your brain can really go haywire. And the thoughts then contribute to future insomnia, a nasty circle. So what to do?
For me, mindfulness and prayer have been the key, the first to slow down and watch the thoughts rather than living them and buying into them; the second for the strength to get through the worst nanoseconds which do not last but seem like they will at the time.
I disagree with people who don’t believe in prayer, though I can understand why they don’t. As for mindfulness, it is sort of a fad right now but has been around for centuries. A couple of free sites: palousemindfulness.com and mindfulnessnorthwest.com
I know when you are really hammered from insomnia it is hard to see the difference between:
1. I’m having the thought that that this is going to last forever, that I should just give up; and
2. This is going to last forever. I am going to give up. —– The difference is huge.
I hope you stay with this site and check out Martin’s materials. The way we think about insomnia can really give it a life of its own, or we can step back and view it more dispassionately, to the point it can lose its grip on us. Not that we can all sleep great every night, but it becomes more of a casual, sometime nuisance rather than a monster.
Hi Chasingsleep, I think you have an insight in the name you have chosen. Chasing sleep indeed. I totally relate to wanting to track it down, grab it and hold onto it, and not wanting it to get away. And then after you have been up all day, wanting it to be there on call, exactly when you want.
But it seems to have a mind of its own.
I read that the inventor Thomas Edison would sleep when he was sleepy, regardless what time day or night. Then stay up while he was alert, again regardless of the time. I think that guitarist Keith Richards does the same, or at least did when he was younger. But both were self-employed and did not have to adhere to a set schedule. I am presuming that like most people, you have to be at work at a certain time.
Still, perhaps you still have some flexibility. Do you have a chance to nap during the day, if only just to close your eyes in a quiet spot for five minutes, regardless whether you fall asleep?
How do you feel about letting yourself sleep when you feel sleepy at 8/9pm? If this means you wake up at say 3am instead of your customary 6am, is that a bad thing if you feel rested?You might want to check out Martin’s materials about sleep restriction as well.
Sleep is weird. I do know that trying to control it doesn’t work all that well. And do I know how badly we want to sometimes!
Hi Carli, I am 71. I would not put too much into aging and sleep needs. Perhaps there are neurological theories, and I am not a medical professional. I do know that counting hours has never worked all that well for me. Instead, when I wake up, I stretch and do my best to just focus on the moment, instead of checking the clock and calculating.
And after stretching, sometimes I decide that yeah, I think I’ll stay up. Other times, I think that going back to sleep would be nice. And if I go back to bed and fall asleep, great, If I don’t fall asleep, I just get up and figure I’ll sleep later–a nap, etc.
Even when retired, though, there are some days where there isn’t going to be time for a nap. Or I might try to take a nap and can’t fall asleep. And then it is easy to start fretting about whether the chronic insomnia is coming back, and how for how long, and I can’t deal with this anymore, etc. etc. You know, the panic train starts rolling: where is it going, will it ever stop….
And when I can step back and watch the train just roll away, things slow down and sleep returns in its natural course. Sometimes easier said than done, I know; that train can really roar and get scary.
So again, I would not assume that since I am 70, my sleep is pretty much shot from here on out. It isn’t.
