Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi Megdee, I think you have hit on an important point. It is understandable that you would have some situational insomnia with the big change coming, i.e. back to full-time work. But as you say, now it seems like the insomnia has taken on a life of its own. I can relate to how it seems like insomnia is well…. a monster, out to ruin our lives. At least, I have ascribed those qualities to it.
The truth is that insomnia has no life. And making it the main focus is trying to…I don’t know, herd cats, control air bubbles? It doesn’t respond to effort.
So what to do? I think foregoing opportunities like a job or a relationship or whatever is just giving insomnia more control. And unless you are independently wealthy, you have to get out there somewhere, somehow, and even if you can afford to hide, do you want to give up and be a recluse?
Maybe this is a rambling way of saying just do the best you can, and if you are afraid of failure, e.g. getting fired, what can you do except just give it your best?
I struggled with insomnia for many years (does not mean you will, it was unresolved childhood trauma). I failed at a number of things–got fired a few times, got dumped several times, and looking back some of it was probably related to my lack of confidence and exhaustion. But what are you gonna do except do the best you can, right?
I know the feeling that insomnia is running your life and is going to destroy you can be an incredibly powerful feeling. And we live in a age which gives an enormous amount of credence to how we feel (sorry, I think my self-absorbed boomer generation, including yours truly, conjured that up). But “incredibly powerful feeling” does not equal “true.”
Finally, how is it little kids just conk out and go to sleep? All our adult analysis can sometimes really get in the way.
I hope this hasn’t sound casually dismissive. I know it seems like there is no way out, but if you can stick with this forum, I think you will see you are not alone—even though, again, it can feel that way.
Hi Jasalan3—first off, don’t think that because no one has responded to your six-day old post, that no one cares. There are a lot of posts. It’s important to check out other ones and the replies. You will find that the same messages resonate throughout, and that they apply to you, too.
Okay, anxiety and insomnia. Lots of times this can start with a specific event, that anyone would be anxious about. Getting laid off, busted relationship, money worries, a mean thing somebody said to you, even remembering something unpleasant from months or years ago but it is sticking with you. And then even if you resolve it, e.g. hey, lots of people get laid off, I can get another job–still, once the insomnia moves in, it can hang around on its own.
I note that you are monitoring how long you are lying there unable to sleep, which makes me suspect that the insomnia alone is just feeding on itself, that it doesn’t need a specific situation anymore.
And Martin’s course addresses this, so that could be a good way to go. It comes down to thoughts. Thoughts about anything–why did she say that, what’s wrong with me, etc etc.
So what to do with all these thoughts. This is the easier said than done part, but with practice, you can develop this skill—not trying to banish the thoughts, instead just acknowledging that they are there. And that they are just thoughts. Believe me, I know that when they are really powerful and nasty, you feel they must be true, and they must lead somewhere, they must mean I should do this or that. But it’s just the insomnia talking.
There is an enormous difference between:
—I can’t sleep, I can’t live like this anymore, I wish I was dead; and
—I’m having the thought that I can’t sleep, that I can’t live like this anymore; I’m having the thought that I wish I was dead.
It can be hard to see the difference when you are hammered from lack of sleep. But many of us have been down this road. Know you are not alone here.
Hi Unfatigued, I also have had concerns about chronic insomnia and long term health. But I do agree with Martin on the dubious efficacy of the studies. Since Covid, I have been following my scientist wife’s caution to check to see if the study has been peer-reviewed. Most of the time you will not see that included in the description, which means that maybe there is causation, but further study is required to truly verify. Also worth checking to see if the study is in a reputable journal, e.g. New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet, or through Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic.
The only definitive evidence I have come across pertains to sleep apnea. Those sleep studies involve instruments which can measure and document breathing difficulties. These studies are reviewed by sleep medicine physicians, who are in my view highly competent medical engineers, but not so good on the emotional aspects of insomnia.
I think there most definitely can be long term emotional aspects of insomnia, to the extent we let it run the show. Which is easy to fall into when you’re hammered from lack of sleep. Add to that aging: coming up on 72, sometimes I feel like I must be losing my marbles when i come upstairs and can’t remember what I came up here to get. And eventually I remember–and also remember that everybody does that sometimes.
Insomnia can be a real bear, as you clearly know. It makes me think I must be losing my mind now and then, but actual physical damage to brain, heart, etc.? No. (Exception: re the sleep apnea, which again can be measured with instruments, there is significant risk of stroke if untreated, generally with CPAP therapy.)
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi Katie12, for starters I would recommend reading some of the Success Stories on page one, especially the one entitled “Just a little update.” The author describes the awful journey she went through with her husband as he obsessed about sleeping.
I don’t have enough detail to speculate why you are having trouble. i do know it can start with anything–a stressful event, relationship or money problems, physical health problems, a difficult boss or colleagues etc. etc. And then it can take on a life of its own, commonly and accurately referred to as sleep anxiety.
It can be hard not to obsess when you are tired. More precisely, it can be hard not to obsess when your thoughts are scrambled because you are tired. It can take some doing, but if you can get to the point where you can “watch your mind,” i.e. observe that you are thinking, instead of getting swept away by thoughts, things can improve. Some sites I have found helpful: Headspace Guide to Meditation on Netflix; mindfulness northwest.com; palousemindfulness.com
Take care, you are not alone.
“I believe I have a fear of not being able to sleep that has led to this becoming a more common occurrence…”
I think you have nailed it right here. It took me years to figure out that it’s all about sleep anxiety. You bet, it can start with some relatively innocuous change, such as sleeping in a different place. Add to that a stressful activity coming up the next day, and then even when you don’t. And you don’t have to have a specific reason for not being able to sleep, you just can’t.
Another part of the story for me has been feeling like I have to solve it, not just for tonight but for every night. In fact, I am going through that a bit at this moment—a setback last night, fretting about job hassles I had 30 years ago (hey, it doesn’t have to make sense, right?). But now I am sitting here deciding to just check out the present moment, which fortunately includes what looks like a beautiful sunrise coming up.
So instead of trying to solve anything, I think I am just going to kick back and enjoy the view. OK, I’ll be feeling tired today, but maybe I will get a nap in, maybe not. But I’ve been here before, and it doesn’t mean I am going to be exhausted the rest of my life. And believe me, I know how you can get into that whacky line of thinking, when your brain is scrambled from lack of sleep.
Sorry you are going through a rough spot, and I know it is hard not to obsess about it, but maybe you can find something pleasant to enjoy today. It doesn’t have to be a big thing, just any reminder that life is bigger than monitoring how well I am sleeping.
Hi sbcohen99, I found that sleep meds could provide a short-term solution, but that inevitably I would build up a tolerance. So I can understand you’re wanting to move beyond them.
For myself, it seemed like doctors just wanted to write another prescription, because they could, and didn’t feel all that comfortable discussing what was driving the insomnia in the first place.
As for getting off meds, I also found that pharmacists know more about side effects, half-lifes (i.e. how long it stays in your system, and whether you need to taper off a particular medication). And that they are glad to share what they know.
As for root causes of insomnia, I hope you stay with the forum and read other people’s comments. I would also recommend Martin’s materials, such as podcasts and consider taking his course. And even when you make progress, know that nobody sleeps great every night. So don’t panic if you have a setback.
It does get better.
Hi Spindledog, I am coming up on 72 and can relate to the bladder issue. It is certainly one of the ways to wander into Insomnialand: even if you go right back to sleep, just getting up more and more increases the chance of staying awake, and then after a few nights you can think insomnia is here to stay.
When I think of it during the day, I practice Koegel (sp?–pronounced: “Kay-gel,” hard g, like gate) exercises. This involves practicing “holding it” if you will, best done where you have a bathroom close by, if you still need to go pronto. This can help your bladder unlearn the lesson it has picked up recently.
Another thing to check out at our age is prostate. This means going to the doctor. A primary care physician can check it, with a referral to a urologist only if complications. As for the exam, it is not the most pleasant, but women have to deal with a lot more procedures than we do. I know that if you tell a woman that you don’t want to get a prostate exam, she will probably give you a hard look and tell you to deal with it.
And maybe stating the obvious here, but limiting the liquids, especially alcohol, a couple hours before bed can cut down the wake-up calls.
If this is the only thing driving your insomnia, it could be a fairly short and easy fix. Although there is no denying that aging plays a part. By now, you have probably heard the expression, “Aging’s not for wimps.”
Good luck on this, hope you sleep longer soon.
Hi amrah23, I can relate to your description of insomnia as hell. It can certainly seem like at least an introduction to hell.
But I did learn over time that repeating to myself that “this is hell” tended to perpetuate the experience. I found that even if I did not sleep well, it did not have to mean I was going through hell. Sure, I would have preferred to have slept well, but being tired did not necessarily have to mean being miserable.
And I found that sleep meds could help get over a really bad spot, and they would work for a while until I built up a resistance to it. So on to another med, for a while. But sometimes no meds would work because I would build up the anxiety and frustration to the point where nothing could get me to sleep.
Easier said than done, I know, but it comes down to attitude. Little kids don’t think about sleep, they just conk out. It’s a natural process, which we can overthink and tie ourselves in knots about.
I hope you stick with the forum. You will find there are lots of people going through this. And it doesn’t mean you are condemned to a lifetime of exhaustion.
Hi Liz, I am glad you found this site. I think you will see you are not alone in this.
The main thing for me about insomnia is how I can learn what to do and not do, and then have a setback and sort of forget it all, because my mind gets so scrambled from lack of sleep. And then learning again to be gentle with myself because well, I’m doing the best I can.
You will learn or re-learn about sleep hygiene, the limits of sleep meds, and the big kahuna for most of us—sleep anxiety.
I don’t want to sound patronizing. Maybe you have heard all this before. But at least for me, I need to get reminded a lot.
Welcome.
Hi Jwvin, sorry to hear you are having such a tough time. All I can do is offer what has/hasn’t worked for me. Maybe it will help; I hope so.
I found that sleep meds either worked not at all, or for a short time before I built up a resistance. M.Ds tend to just write you another prescription without exploring any emotional aspects of insomnia. I did get some relief with a CPAP for apnea, but nothing else.
Re the emotional aspects, what worked the most–and still does, when I have setbacks is prayer and mindfulness. The first for getting the strength to get through the worst moments, the second for training my mind to stop buying into my thoughts.
I realize many people don’t believe in prayer, but there you go. As for mindfulness, there are documented studies which show actual physical changes to the brain. This matters because I found that like most people, my thoughts would get really scrambled when I was exhausted, to the point where I would start buying into my thoughts instead of just observing them drift or race through my head. It didn’t even matter if something concrete was happening in my life to disrupt sleep. Just worrying about whether I would sleep, aka sleep anxiety, took on a life of its own—a common story which afflicts millions of us.
A couple of mindfulness websites: palousemindfulness.com and mindfulness northwest.com
Also Headspace Guide to Meditation on Netflix.As with prayer, a lot of people will blow off mindfulness as useless because they hear or read something from one or two people which doesn’t resonate.
I hope you stay with this website. Martin’s email and podcasts are really good, and reading other people’s posts help as well. For starters, you will see you are far from alone in all this.
I don’t believe there is a “cure” for insomnia, as in you will sleep great every night from here on out. It’s not like breaking a bone, which heals up and works fine after two or three months. So try not to freak out with setbacks.
All easier said than done: I still have to watch the tendency to panic, get irritable, despairing, etc. Insomnia can do a number on you.
Don’t give up, like I say you are not alone.
Hi nickpack, I am sorry to hear you are going through such a tough time.
It sounds like you know the sleep hygiene drill. In case you don’t know, another point is to avoid screen time before bedtime.
Doctors, especially M.D.s, are inclined to write you a prescription for this or that. I don’t know that you really get “addicted” to sleep meds as much as they offer only temporary relief at best. Not a bad thing when you are really up against it, but if there were a surefire drug to cure insomnia, you would have heard about it.
As far as research goes, the technical side has turned up only sleep apnea as a problem which medical engineering can solve via sleep studies and CPAP machines. Beyond that, insomnia is more esoteric, for lack of a better word. It defies solution in the way you solve things like crossword puzzles or how to fix an electrical circuit. I wish this were not so: I totally get just wanting to fix the damn thing once and for all.
I am glad you joined this site. For starters, you will see you are not even close to alone in this. Beyond that, I think you will see from the comments and Martin’s emails/podcasts that obsessing about sleep is counter-productive. Sleep anxiety takes on a life of its own. You can probably understand this easily on an intellectual level, but it can really be a bear when you’re tired. So it can help to hear the message again.
I am having a bit of a setback right now. I am doing my best to accept where I am at this moment. That might sound kind of passive, but I know that trying harder to sleep and sliding into panic when I don’t will not work.
I would have preferred to have slept better last night, but I am going to find some good spots to enjoy today anyway and not be too hard on myself. I hope you can, too.
Hi Fifi, it sounds like you are really going through the mill right now. I can totally relate to trying to think your way out of insomnia and then telling your brain to stop thinking. The truth is that thinking does not cure insomnia, it can get in the way, plus you can’t stop thinking.
So what to do? For me, I have done best when I realize that okay, my thoughts are flying all over the place, especially when I’m hammered after several nights of poor sleep. And sometimes I have gotten so tired that I have just let the thoughts fly through my head, as in okay, you thoughts are going to keep zipping around, I can’t seem to “think” you out of here….but at the same time, I realize later that I guess I stopped putting a lot of stock into what the thoughts were about. And damn if I didn’t sleep better. How crazy is that?
It’s sort of like it didn’t matter what the thoughts were, it was only when I bought into them that I had problems.
Hard to see this when you are really blitzed, and the thoughts seem to be bringing on a big catastrophe, when actually they are just bubbles. Eventually they just pop and you realize they didn’t amount to anything.
Take care, you are not alone in this. I hope you stay with the site. Besides realizing you are not alone, just hearing how people have dealt with insomnia can help. It might sound repetitive, but it seems we need to keep hearing it. It is so easy to lapse back into trying to think our way out.
Hi BBS, Just as others have responded to your post, I think it is helpful to check out other posts, especially those where Martin et al have responded. You might find the comments repetitive, but actually that is part of the drill. Some things you just have to hear or do over and over, and then get reminded.
This is especially so when it comes to setbacks, relapses, whatever you want to call it. It can be easy to slide into thinking, ‘oh no, I had this down, I was doing fine, what’s wrong with me, etc.’
Or another mindset is ‘ I am reading success stories, but I can’t seem to get anywhere, what’s wrong with me, I am stuck forever in this, etc.’
In both cases, it’s the insomnia talking. I just had to get reminded again this week.
Hi ksglow56, I can relate. You seem to be the only person who is not able to sleep. And you go to the store or work, and it seems like everybody is rested and refreshed. That no one knows what you are going through, what is wrong with me, etc.
Basically, that is the insomnia talking. Not only are you tired, but you get all sorts of whacked-out thoughts running through your head. The truth is there are millions of us out here every day who are hammered tired and just trying to make it through the day somehow.
I hope you stick with this site. You will find plenty of stories like yours. And not just laments, but tips on how to see insomnia as a temporary symptom, like a cold. Hard to see it as temporary when it keeps hanging around, but so much depends on how we feel about it. Is it just a situation at the moment, or are we giving it power by obsessing about it, and trying to think our way out of it.
You are not alone in this, not even close.
