[Daf]

Hi FrozenSun,

You can read user reviews of mirtazapine for insomnia here:

https://www.drugs.com/comments/mirtazapine/for-insomnia.html

I hope that helps.

[Daf]

My experience of Mirtazapine….

From all my research on this drug and from own experience, 7.5MG is the right dose for insomnia. Larger doses do not work as well at all. Lots of quality research online on this unusual aspect of it.

15Mg and more is what they give people for ongoing depression, as opposed to feeling depressed the odd day after a “Nil-sleeping” night. It’s use in low doses for people with bad insomnia (as opposed for treatment of depression) is a side-use.

I have found the key is to take it at least one hour before you go to bed. Taking it in middle of night, when you cannot get to sleep does not seem to work regularly. It’s not a knockout pill!

I have taken it on a very occasional basis (or for periods of two weeks, when I was getting regular nil-sleep nights) to break those episodes of insomnia up and restore good sleep. It does have a long life and makes you feel drousy into the next day and even next night too, though, so maybe not great for old people who may have poor balance and indeed maybe people who have to drive / operate machinery next day (unless they are prepared to counter with a heavy dose of caffeine).

But it is that long half life – that is good for me. Because even the next night I still feel in a “cool-drousy place” and can sleep well.

It has regularly broken up long episodes of insomnia for me, (where I’m getting nil sleep say two to three times a week for 3 weeks)….. . And it has broken up the pattern.

But seems to work and gives a much longer sleep than Zopiclone.

I got a bit of weight gain with it, (the main side effect for some folks) but that was OK because now I was now sleeping better and feeling better) I was able to do lots more exercise, so that counteracted weight gain. (When I had nights of nil sleep I had to miss my evening football because I had been feeling too depressed).

Generally, I avoid drugs, but this has worked ad hoc for me to break episodes of insomnia.

Of course, its use as anti-insomnia is a side effect of it, this drug is used on regular basis for people with moderate to severe depression.

And in those circs – as a treatment for insomnia – it worked.

I am coming off it now – only taking it every three nights now , and thus far, have had no repeat insomnia.

I also practice all the CBT-I stuff and acceptance commitment therapy – as per Guy Meadows approach. I find both CBTI and ACT work (which is mindfulness based). The only thing that is daft with CBTI in my opinion is the insistence of getting out of bed after 15 mins if you cannot sleep. This, in my view, creates too much pressure. OK, if you are wound up, get out of bed and do something else that is relaxing (I watch nature progs on TV), though I usually can just accept being awake and stay in bed and feel calm. Whatever works for you though.

Hope this helps.

Daf (Him in that there, London)

Of course, I’m not a doctor!

[frozensun]

Took mirtazapine for 2 months,I felt very drowsy,then increased the dose to 15 mg in 2 weeks,and then it coudn’t make me fall asleep at all.It worked for like 2.5 months back in 2017 I think.

The worse part is I feel somehow strange over past 3 days,including today.

I feel like I’m not myself,like I’m in some sort of brain fog,and it’s hard for me to concentrate at anything,watching TV,reading book.Wtf is that?

I know it’s a feeling of derealisation,it’s not really first time this happens to me,I hope it will pass.

Maybe of all that tiredness,my brain is reacting like this.

jazzcat22 thx for the book…

[SIimon]

Good advice Daf and worth a try……..although I tried Mirtazapine and it did nothing for me 🙁

It works on the histamine receptors and is like a more powerful version of the OTC rememdies that target this part of the brain.

 

I totally agree about the 15-20 min rule. When I tried CBT-I I think that did me more harm than good and I soon stopped it. I was laid in bed wondering how much longer of the 20 mins I had left! Not conducive to getting some sleep….

[frozensun]

I can’t stop visiting doctors thiking they can help me.

I give all my money to their exams but so far none of them helped.

Yesterday I got an e-mail from clinic in Croatia where they would appoint me to come to Tuesday.

I gave up,because 2 reasons,the doctor is psychiatrist,I mean it’s listed he is somnologists but he is very young and second reason

A trip would cost me a lot and it’v very exhausting to travel for me for 10 hours in one day.

I mean,did doctors helped you guys,any of them??Should I finally tell my self stop going to all those doctors they can’t help you in your chronic insomnia?!

I mean I changed like 20 doctors,all telling me same story,some giving pills,some telling me there is no help.

[SIimon]

Ask them what they plan to do if you visit them before making a decision.

The only help I ever got from doctors or psychiatrists was them handing me some medication or a sheet of paper with basic sleep hygine tips.

IMO they are mostly clueless when it comes to insomnia…..I remember one telling me in a very patronising manner that my insomnia was being fuelled by going to bed a 22:00…..this apparently is too early for an adult!

Although CBT-I didn’t cure my insomnia I think this is always the best first option – after that it’s drugs or getting someone that will spend time and effort into looking into any possible physiological issues causing it, good luck with the later. In the UK you could spend years going down that route unless you paid privately.

[Daf]

Good advice from Simon there.

I can recommend the books, The Sleep Solution by Chris Winter and the book by Guy Meadows. Both excellent.

I feel that while drugs can help a bit, you may just have to accept this thing as being part of your life. When you do that, you will inevitably feel some increase in calmness.

Sometimes life is a bit s~~t but we have to just live with it and do our best to carry on.  Lean on friend too. That’s what friends are for. Don’t suffer alone, like some men do!

 

[frozensun]

So,today I’ve been to psychiatric hospital and the only solution for me what they can do is for me to stay in hospital again.But that would be for fifth time,and probably they would drug me with meds like they did before with no psychotherapy at all.

But that was not solution before and it’s not solution is the future.

I hope you guys agree or not?

I’ve been told that nothing else can they do for me,can give me seroquel 25 mg which I avoided because it makes me groggy all day long and shrink wrote that patient doesn’t want to co-operate and take meds.

So seems to me all hell broke loose on me.Last night I slept like 3 hours and next 2 nights I work nightshifts.

God,help me please!!

[frozensun]

So I had to go to work,so drowsy and tired.I took 7.5 mg of nitrazepam and 1 mg of klonopin and slept at work for 4 hours.Then I came home feeling very tired and drowsy.

Went to bed around 8 a.m. I think I was like in half sleep half awake stage,but dad told me I slept for 2 hours.

I don’t feel amazing good,but I feel more rested then days before.

On Monday I will give a chance to one famous doctor here who is neurologists and who helped many people here,although not with insomnia but with various neurological diseases.

I will pay for exam,for 20-30 min a lot,but he is so far my last chance.Dear God,I just wish  he doesn’t tell me like others I’m not somnologists and I can’t help you.That would make my depression very severe.

As for psychiatric yard the chief told me,the only way to help me is to stay in a hospital for a while,but that would be my forth time,and last 3 times they really didn’t help me.

Sadly they threat me with psychiatric diagnosis,but sadly it all started with insomnia so basically they cure the consequences but not the cause.

I need to make decision should I stay in hospital or not,because that is so far the only way to get me off work for like 3-4 weeks,but then again I don’t want them to drug me with all those meds like they did before.

 

[frozensun]

So seems to me by this neurologists which did the exam I have this disease:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder

And my brain simply doesn’t know when to sleep and when not.

I asked how do I cure it,if it’s helpful if I quit shiftwork but he told me he ain’t so sure if I will be able even to work normally 7-15 p.m.

He asked me to do neurotransmitter tests, serotonin,dopamine and norepinephrine in the blood.

I still cry because seems to be this diagnosis is not curable at all.

I really don’t want to suffer anymore if there is no cure for this,what’s left for me is suicide!

 

[frozensun]

There is a strange feeling which worries me a lot.

For days I feel like I’m in some king of fog,like I’m half in sleep half in awake state,like I’m drunk,it’s hard for me to concentrate on anything,but me memory is relatively ok.Although I make a lot of mistakes at work.

I told my psychiatrists about this,but she told me not to worry about it.

This feeling worries me a lot,it has never been like this before,and then suicide thoughts come to my mind.

Is my brain shutting down,and damaging it’s self?I don’t want to suffer anymore,and feel like this.

I take 1 mg of klonopin+5 mg of mogadon in the evening which is not high dosage but I keep awakening at around 5 am with like 4-5 hours of sleep only.

I never felt like this before.I used to take 3 mg of klonopin for weeks and didn’t feel like this.

Guys,is it something serious?Tonight nighshift and I’m sick of it already,but don’t have choice because I know with/without work I can’t sleep.

Maybe I need to quit the work,but no one frm doctors is like 100 % sure if my sleep will ever come back,besides I would fall in severe depression.

But working in nightshift is not solution anymore and I’m really afraid of serious mental illnesses (psychosis,dissociative disorder) and permanent brain damage.

[frozensun]

Came from night shift yesterday,took 7.5 mg of remeron and slept for 3 hours before noon.

Came from night shift this morning,very exhausted and tired.Took again same med,no sleep at all.

I feel very tired,drowsy,having breathing problems and cough,and feeling like I’m drunk.

This is becoming terrifying to me and exhausting me really bad.

This med helped me sleep before although I felt drowsy tommorow.

Now nothing.God,please don’t make me suffer anymore!

I’m scared,scared that this is becoming more worse and worse.

I hate my bed,my bedroom,and hate when the night comes.

Guys what should I do?

[Daf]

Odd isn’t it. Remeron, also known as Mirtazapine worked for me but only when I took it an hour before intended sleep time and then used next hour to just chill out.

[frozensun]

This is really serious.Seems to me like my brain doesn’t know when to sleep and when not.

I had to take 50 mg of clozapine last night to sleep,otherwise I would maybe fall down on concrete like last time after 2 night shfits.

But drowsiness is huge issue for me.It’s 5 p.m now,I took it last night at 8 p.m and I still feel little bit odd.

This shit just makes you want to wire yourself on bed.

I’m scared because I can’t find another job with this diploma.

For sure shift work makes thing worse for me with insomnia but seems to me damaged is already made long time ago,and no one is 100 % sure if I can even work 7-15 p.m and if my circadian rhytm will ever come back to normal.

[frozensun]

So I must know If quiting a job would make things better for me,I mean would my brain start to function normal,that circadian rhytm.

The odd thing is that id didn’t happen to me,even when I was off-work for months.

So seems like this is double edge sword,quitting a job I would loose $,but would I finally manage to sleep normally at least 4 hours.None of the doctors told me what to do,but if this became chronic then I can’t go to work at all,no matter changing the job or not,if I would find another job,that would be very hard for me.

Seems like there is no help for me…

I lost 15 kg for like 3 months.What’s next. diabetes,cancer,thyroid symptoms? 🙁

[Author]

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