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I think I understand what you mean, yawning. I used to feel very worried and anxious about sleep in the past, and as a result had a lot of trouble falling asleep. When I learned not to fear sleep, I started sleeping much better, until I was struck with this new kind of insomnia. I still don’t get anxious going to sleep and fall asleep easily most of the time, but like you can’t stay asleep long enough to feel good.
I think that maybe I personally do get a little anxious when I wake up, though. Or at least I’ve come to look at these early morning with dread after all this time.
But you’re right, not everybody “fears sleep” and thus can’t sleep. I wish it was that simple, but there are other reasons why people can’t sleep.
Same.
It’s Sunday, a day to rest and enjoy, but I’m up since 5 a.m. (from 23:30) so I have an exhausting day in front of me.
I’m just writing to give my support, since I have no idea what to do myself. They say get up immediately, but I’m sceptical towards all that. I think these things will either pass on their own or they won’t.
Good luck.
Hi carls.
Yes, in theory. But even light sleep is sleep, and the fact that you’re still alive shows that it can’t just up and kill you.
Why would you immediately jump from “I can’t sleep” to “Will I die”, though?
I do believe that lack of sleep can leave some damage on the brain, but I never though it could kill you. I mean, technically it can, indirectly, through things like car crashes or the development of illnesses like epilepsy which can then, in rare cases, kill you. I have epilepsy, but it doesn’t have to be that I developed it because of sleep deprivation.
But lack of sleep directly killing you, no. Try to get thoughts like that out of your head, if you can.
<p style=”text-align: center;”>Damn, I see now that I have written just the thing you first inquired about, sry.</p>
Carls, when you say “no sleep for weeks on end”, what does that mean for you, specifically? I’m not starting a brawl here, I’m honestly asking.
If it really were NO sleep for weeks, you would be dead, so of course it’s not literally no sleep, but how much sleep do you get? How long have you had this?
Hi, Simon,
I agree, i.e. I know about Valium’s reported effect on the quality of sleep, though I have to say, again from personal experience, that on the rare occassions when I manage to get 7 hrs of sleep on Valium, I feel as good as I did on my natural 7 hrs nigths. And also, it took 3-4 months of this kind of living for me to even consider trying Valium, so I think I was just as exhausted sleeping less than 7 hrs in my natural sleep days.
So natural sleep or not, 7-7.5 hours is my goal and what my body needs.
I tried, a few times, some actual sleeping pills (in very small doses). One did nothing for me, and the other one was terrible – not only did it not put me to sleep, it made my mind completely sc*ewed the next day, in a way that I can’t really explain. It wasn’t like I was drunk, it was something else. So, Valium (and occassional Xanax, which are I think from the same family) is the best thing that I tried so far. When it works, it works well, and when it doesn’t then I’m just generally tired because I didn’t sleep, no added drugged effect on my mind.
Yes, we need to complete our sleep cycles, and if day in and day out we get one cycle less than our body needs, that is a lot of sleep debt that needs to be “payed back”. That’s where power naps would come in great and sleeping in would come in great, for those that are able to do that.
And also (and sorry,really, for “hogging” the topic) – if somebody asked me on my bad nights before if I would rather sleep for 6 hrs steadily every night, I would immediately say “yes!” But now that I know what it’s really like to never, ever, feel rested and okay, I wish I could go back to what it was like before.
I am certainly asking my neuro about this on the next appointment, if it’s normal to feel THIS exhausted after 6 hrs of (albeit chemically helped) sleep, so I’ll see what he says. But I have read that these “early morning awakenings” zap the sufferer’s energy during the day, so …
Thiugh I never kept a sleep diary, here are,roughly,my sleep patterns from before (in the course of a week):
Day 1: 7 hrs – felt great
Day 2: 7 hrs – felt great
Day 3: 7 hrs – felt great
Day 4: 6 hrs – felt okay
Day 5: 0 hrs – felt terrible
Day 6: 5 hours – felt okay
Day 7: 7 hours – felt great
So, as you can see, I had good sleep about 80% of the time, and bad about 20%.
My “new” sleep pattern:
Day 1: 5 hrs – felt exhausted
Day 2: 6 hrs – exhausted
Day 3: 5 hrs – exhausted
Day 4: 6 hrs – exhausted
Day 5: 7 hrs – okay
Day 6: 6 hrs – exhausted
Day 7: 5 hrs – exhausted
And on and on.
So, my sleep shifted from feeling good mist of the time, then horrible some of the time, to feeling exhausted almost ALL of the time.
I also have to mention that the sleep from before was all natural, no pills, and this new one is with the help of Valium, so maybe that has something to do with the whole thing , too.
All I’m saying is thay I, personally, would love to get back on the first kind of sleep. So what if I have an occasional nil sleep night, if most others will be okay? It’s far better than this constant state of exhaustion.
But who knows how sleep functions in other people.
The only thing I know for sure is that counting sleep in “hours slept” is a useless effort. 6 hrs for me is not the same as 6 hrs for someone else.
Whoa,slow down, nobody is going to get “angrily shot down”.
I am first to say that , in addition to this lack of sleep, I also suffer from MS (which i mention perhaps too often here), so I don’t deny that maybe it also adds to my chronic exhaustion. Maybe in my 6 hours my brain doesn’t reach enough REM, who knows. But I do feel exhausted, and just today everyone at work asked me what was wrong.
Do you get that question a lot, too?
Sleep needs vary. I know for a fact that my mother sleeps less than me, yet you could never tell. She can talk all day, I struggle to find words.
Perhaps Martin can chime in on what the situation is. Why do I (and others) feel terrible on 6 hours of sleep while others are energized the whole day on the same 6 hours.
Who the hell knows.
Simon, I know this thread is over now , but I’ve only just read it and I have to say “thanks”. Yes, we were finalists. I meant to say vice-champions or something like that.
But ,you got your revenge not long after, so we’re even. 🙂
Hope you’re sleeping well.
Eddy.
And my two replies got mixed, the one that starts with “Hi daf” is chronologically first, and the one starting with “I’ll sat again” should be second.
This forum is confusing people on purpose! 🙂
Daf, I like your new approach, I have to confess I’m still in the mindset that you used to be in. I go to bed between 22 and 23, regardless of whether I’m tired or not. And the weird thing is – I fall asleep most times irrelevant of how I feel. Beter still, like I mentioned once before, I fall asleep better when I’m NOT tired than when I am. But I know it’s not that uncommon.
My poor old granpa did develop dementia ih the end, sadly. His sleep got even worse then! I thought he would sleep like a baby when he practucally reverted to his kid stages. Too bad.
Being openly gay AND in MI5? I’m glad that it was even possible, I always though openly gay people are bullied by default in the military and similar institutions. Reminds me of Imitation game and poor Alan Turing. But I , too, digress. 🙂
Off to bed, it’s past 22 in Croatia. It’s only 21 in Britain, if I’m not mistaken, and I envy you right now. 🙂
Ho daf,
well, I’m 30, and my 5 hrs a night sleep nights are killing me.
I can’t help but doubt if anyone would, if they could REALLY live like me for, say, a month, say that it’s nothing to complain about.It’s easy to think so when you secretly DO nap, or catch a 7.5 hours (or more) occassionally (not saying it’s you, just saying it’s most pretenders around “insomnia” forums.)
But if they really, REALLY went for it, and dilligently avoided naps and sleep ins and all that, I doubt they wouldn’t get as pissed off as I am with 5-6 hours of sleep a night. I invite anyine to stay at my olace and live life at my pace. Then I would know for sure that they really do sleep only that little.
So to most “if only-ies” I say – something smells fishy. You only think it’s easy, but you don’t really know what it’s like. There are probably some unaware naps, some sleep misperception, some sneaky little sleep-ins here and there.
But , it doesn’t matter. I will still complain of my insufficient sleep,because it makes me feel bad. Whoever feels I’m complaining for no reason, doesn’t have to read. And vice-versa, of course.
Ah, good night everybody.
I’ll ask again – which is worse? A few dreaded “nil sleep nights” followed,presumably, by days and days of good sleep (sleep that makes you feel good all day), or constant,daily, subpar sleep and exhaustion.
I’ll use a very crude comparison, but I can’t think of any other at the moment. Should people with only one leg never complain because there are those with no legs? I mean, those woth one leg can at least hop, so why are they complaining?
I went to sleep at 11 last night, and woke up at 3:55. And it’s not a one-time thing, nor does it happen “a few nights in a row per month”. It is constant, daily, and I’ll say again, most selfproclaimed”insomniacs” would not want to trade places.
I always think of my late grandpa in sotuations like this. He was always my comfort when I couldn’t sleep, because he and my mum said that all his life he’s been living on 3 hours of sleep per night. I always thought to myself “man, my sleep can be tough, but my poor grandpa has it far worse”. Then on one occassion we had to spend a week at his house because we were recedorating ours. And I saw for myself what his 3 hours meant. 3 per night, 1-2 per day, and about a dozen power naps.
I’m sorry, but throughout my life I’ve witnesed so many cases like his that I don’t know what to believe anymore.
If there really are people out there who often spend 2 or 3 nil sleep nights in a row,and on other nights really sleep for only 3-4 hours, and don’t nap, then I feel so strongly for them. Their life really is hell in that case, and mine really is peanuts in comparison. But, I still have to meet such a person. Until then, please allow me to complain and let off some steam when I wake up at 3 or 4.
No sleep, Daf? Do you sleep any during the day? Do you nap or sleep in?
On the second night, do you get enough sleep?
Before Valium, I also had plenty of zero sleep nights, and they were absolutely awful. But the worst part was that I couldn’t nap the next day, and also that the next night, instead of dropping dead into sleep, I would be nervous and find it hard to fall asleep. Paradoxically, no sleep lead to more difficulty sleeping, until things would settle into a normal pattern in 3-4 days.
So, my question is, if you think 4-5 hours a night is nothing to complain about, I’m assuming you would be satisfied with that amount? Again, without naps, microsleeps or sleeping in on the weekends. Would you sign that deal, Daf?
I hope I won’t offend anyone, but I am of the belief that nost people who complain of only a couple of hours of sleep mean only night sleep, and don’t take into account other forms of sleep, mainly during the day.
Anyway, we’ll just have to take eavh other’s word for it I guess.
In my experience – losing friends, real ones, of course not, but gaining new friends – very hard. Who will give you a chance, talk to you when you’re barely capable of talking, and you look gloomy and depressed all the time. I’m afraid to even think what I would see if I could look at myself from another perspective, like someone else’s point of view.
I’ve lost plenty of acquaintances , potential friends, who lost interest after a drink or two where the conversation dragged on my part.
