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Welcome to the forum 🙂
If you are actively trying to make more than four hours of sleep happen, you might be setting yourself up for a struggle — because nobody can consciously make a certain amount or type of sleep happen.
On a related note, a sleep window cannot make a certain amount or type of sleep happen. Really, it’s a tool that’s intended to help move you away from chasing after sleep — from doing things like going to bed earlier or staying in bed later in an attempt to make sleep happen.
What probably matters more is going to bed when you feel ready to go to bed (often indicated by feeling sleepy enough for sleep — finding it hard to stay awake) rather than because you want to make a certain amount or type of sleep happen.
It can also be helpful to have a reasonably consistent out of bed time in the morning so you can strengthen your body clock, you ensure there’s enough time for sleep pressure to build to help with sleep at night, and you have the opportunity to engage in the world around you and do things that matter.
Is there anything useful here?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
That sounds difficult, @Froghop.
How can you practice being kind to yourself when things are difficult and what kind of things can you do that might help make those difficult days even just 1% better?
What kind of actions can you continue to commit to (no matter how small) that reflect who you are, who you want to be, and that keep you moving toward the life you want to live?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Moving away from trying to control sleep is often a more workable approach compared to trying to control sleep!
I am not sure it’s possible to stop worrying (or to stop any other kind of thought or feeling for that matter) because the human brain is generating thoughts and feelings all the time.
The more difficult thoughts and feelings usually come from our brain doing its job of looking out for us. Trying to fight or avoid this is something that can create a struggle that makes things more difficult.
Thoughts don’t stop sleep from happening — battling with them sure can make sleep more difficult, though! After all, how likely is sleep to happen if we are engaged in a battle at night?
Committing to actions that reflect your values and that move you toward the life you want to live, even in the presence of difficult thoughts and feelings and regardless of how you sleep can also help reduce the power and influence all this difficult stuff can have over your life.
As for the benzos, that would be a conversation to have with your doctor.
I hope this helps!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
If you feel there’s a medical explanation for what you are experiencing, I would recommend speaking with a doctor. Having said that, I don’t see anything unusual in your posts other than the typical behaviors and experiences associated with the insomnia struggle.
Waking during the night is a normal part of sleep — and awakenings often become problematic only when we label them as such. The more we try to make a certain amount or type of sleep happen, the more we try to get rid of wakefulness, the more we try to fight or avoid the difficult thoughts and feelings associated with insomnia, the more we are likely to struggle with all this stuff.
It sounds as though you are learning from your experience and you are taking action to change how you approach sleep and respond to being awake. You are clearly a strong advocate for yourself!
Ups and downs are a normal part of the journey — what matters is the workability of your actions because for as long as you try to control what is out of your control (like sleep, what you think, how you feel) you might be setting yourself up for some ongoing struggle.
For as long as you choose actions that move you away from an ongoing struggle, you are more likely to be moving closer to where you want to be.
I hope there’s something useful here!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
First, I would suggest that if you are experiencing palpitations you should speak to your doctor to see if there’s a medical explanation for them.
Next, let me say that your experience is not unique or unusual. It sounds like a common part of the insomnia struggle.
Finally, the answer to the question, “What will help me fall asleep?” is this: Stay awake for long enough, and don’t try to make sleep happen.
Ultimately, insomnia exists for as long as we try to fight or avoid it. Quite often, we need to practice and develop new skills that help us experience insomnia with less struggle — and that is what moves us closer to experiencing effortless sleep.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum.
What you are going through is really difficult and it’s not your fault and it’s not unusual. What you have described so well are common symptoms of the insomnia struggle — so you are definitely not alone (you’ll likely recognize much of your experience in the stories of others on the Insomnia Coach podcast).
The vicious cycle you described is usually a symptom of trying the same thing, over and over again. When those things don’t work, we try harder. And, around and around we go.
Ultimately, the more we try to control sleep the more difficult it becomes. To break out of the cycle, a new approach might be needed.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Waking during the night is a normal part of sleep — and a 30 minute daytime nap is unlikely to be having a significant effect on nighttime sleep.
You could always conduct an experiment and eliminate the naps for a week or two and see if that changes anything. Yet, if you enjoy those naps and they reflect who you are and the life you want to live, why change anything?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
If you were making progress, how would things be different?
I think we can fall into a bit of a trap when setting a sleep window — if you are doing it with the goal of making a certain amount or type of sleep happen (something your own experience probably tells you is out of your direct control) then it can create more difficulty and struggle.
The real intent with a sleep window is to help us move away from chasing after sleep. When we are chasing after sleep we are more likely to do things like go to bed earlier or stay in bed later — this often creates worse conditions for sleep, sets us up for more struggle, and makes it harder for us to do things that move us toward the life we want to live.
I’d suggest having an out of bed time that feels workable to you. An out of bed time that is aligned with the life you want to live, feels realistic, and feels appropriate.
Your chosen out of bed time isn’t the time you are expected to wake up at — it’s nothing more than the time you get out of bed to start your day. Waking during the night is a normal part of sleep (and, for that reason, I don’t think there’s any need to get out of bed just because you are awake).
You might find it helpful not to even check the time when you wake during the night, and to allow yourself to remain in bed for as long as you feel comfortable (until the end of your sleep window, of course). If you find yourself struggling, you always have the opportunity to do something more pleasant — and you can do that in bed, or out of bed. Your choice.
I hope there’s something useful here!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
One thing that I’d add to @hiker’s excellent response is this — thoughts and feelings (no matter how accurate, inaccurate, rational, irrational, helpful, unhelpful, easy to experience, or difficult to experience stop sleep from happening. The human brain is always generating thoughts and feelings!
What makes sleep more difficult is when we try to fight or avoid certain thoughts and feelings — because then we are engaged in a battle, and how likely is sleep to happen when we are engaged in a battle?
As you know from experience, distraction might offer some temporary relief from time to time — but those thoughts and feelings always come back anyway, right? So, where does distraction get you, over the longer term?
We’ll be exploring all this in a lot more detail as the course progresses (especially from Week 2 onward). The fact you are considering this now is setting you up for success and is a reflection of your growth mindset!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
We know that you are generating sleep because you wouldn’t be here today if you weren’t. Sleep happens and it’s a core biological process, like breathing. You can hold your breath (and some people can hold their breath for a really long time) but, sooner or later, the body will take over and you’ll breathe. The same goes for sleep.
The suspension of sleep is usually involuntary (compared to voluntarily holding your breath) and it typically happens when your brain is trying to protect you from what it perceives as the threat of wakefulness.
The more you are able to train your brain that wakefulness isn’t a threat, the less fired up it will become in an attempt to protect you from wakefulness.
You’ll be learning a lot about this as you work through the course but some ways you can start training your brain that wakefulness isn’t a threat is to commit to actions that reflect who you are and who you want to be (independently of sleep), to move away from putting effort into sleep, and to practice experiencing all the thoughts and feelings your problem-solving mind generates (rather than trying to fight or avoid them).
I hope there’s something useful here — you aren’t alone!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the course, Molly 🙂
It might be helpful to consider the intent of the sleep window, at least in the context of the approach I share in the course.
The intent is to help us move away from chasing after sleep. To avoid things like going to bed earlier or staying in bed later in an effort to make sleep happen. As you know from experience, the more you chase after sleep the more elusive it can become.
So, if you feel comfortable with whatever kind of routine you have now, there’s probably no need to change anything. If you aren’t spending a lot of time in bed, battling away with insomnia and trying to make sleep happen, there’s no probably no need to change anything. If you aren’t missing out on life because you are spending so much time in bed, there’s probably no need to change anything.
It can be helpful to go to bed when you are sleepy enough for sleep (rather than because you are trying to make a certain amount of sleep happen) but if what you are doing right now feels good, there’s probably no need to change anything.
It can also be helpful to have a reasonably consistent out of bed time on most mornings — but, again, as long as you are living the life you want to live then (guess what?!) there’s probably no need to change anything!
Does this help?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sleep pressure is always present to a certain degree and it always increases the longer we are awake.
Although there is a possibility you might be an outlier and are genuinely getting no more than 3 hours of sleep on any given night, even over a period of a week or longer, it’s worth considering that most people with insomnia are getting more sleep than they think.
It might also be helpful to consider that the body will always generate (at the very least) the minimum amount of sleep we need, as long as it is given sufficient opportunity to generate sleep.
The key to creating good conditions for more than the minimum amount of sleep to happen is, ironically, to move away from trying to make a certain amount or type of sleep happen. To get more comfortable with being awake at night. To acknowledge whatever you are thinking and feeling, rather than battling away with your mind.
In short, when the nights aren’t a battleground, sleep is best able to take care of itself.
We’ll be exploring all this in a lot more detail as the course progresses but in the meantime, I hope there’s something useful here.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Just want to chime in here to say it’s totally OK (and normal!) to want sleep — trying to turn off that desire will probably create more difficulty and struggle. It’s how we respond to that desire that matters!
Do we choose to respond by trying to control our mind (where does that get us)?
Do we choose to respond by trying to make sleep happen (how effective is that)?
Do we choose to respond by being really hard on ourselves (how does that make things better)?
Or, do we choose to respond by acknowledging that desire, being kind to ourselves, and accepting that sleep is out of our control?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Thanks for sharing your experience and your understanding that ups and downs are natural and normal — just like difficult thoughts and feelings like anxiety!
What matters most is how you respond to things going differently to how you might want them to — because your response is within your control and your response determines the power and influence these things have over your life and your response determines the level of struggle they create.
It’s great that you are reminding yourself that bad nights will happen — as will good nights! And, you are using your time awake in a workable way, rather than battling away and being hard on yourself.
You are off to a flying start 🙂
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Thanks for sharing! How are you things going with your new sleep window?
Remember that the sleep window isn’t intended to make a certain amount or type of sleep happen — the real goal is to help you move away from chasing after sleep (for example, by going to bed a lot earlier or staying in bed a lot later in an attempt to make more sleep happen).
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
