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How are you getting on, Tina? Any updates for us?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum, Phil! We’d love to hear more about some of the positive results you’ve experienced so far!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
A good reminder that it’s important to identify whether sleep apnea is present since cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I) will not address sleep apnea.
Some points I’d like to make:
1. It is, in fact, quite normal to wake during the night! Waking is part of normal sleep. It’s our reaction to these awakenings that usually determines how easy or difficult it will be to fall back to sleep — or if we even remember the awakenings.
2. There is no evidence that chronic insomnia damages the brain or the heart or inhibits the body’s ability to fight infection.
3. Insomnia is not sleep apnea. The suggestion that treating someone for sleep apnea will conquer insomnia is inaccurate — because not everyone with insomnia has sleep apnea.
A tool to help evaluate for sleep apnea is the STOP-Bang questionnaire:
http://www.stopbang.ca/osa/screening.php
I discussed the differences between insomnia and sleep apnea with sleep physician Daniel Erichsen in Episode 5 of the Insomnia Coach Podcast.
If you feel you might have sleep apnea, it’s important to seek medical advice and appropriate treatment.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I’m glad to hear you are sleeping better — I do have to point out that this is unlikely to be because of a magnesium supplement, though.
There is no evidence that magnesium supplements are an effective treatment for chronic insomnia — and when we start down the rabbit hole of looking for supplements as a way to improve our sleep we can often create more sleep-related worry and anxiety and reinforce the idea that we have somehow lost the ability to obtain sleep naturally (something that cannot happen).
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sorry to hear about your struggles with sleep. Can you give us a few more details?
* When do you normally go to bed at night?
* When do you get out of bed to start your day?
* On an average night, how many hours of sleep do you think you get?
* Do you tend to find it hard to fall asleep, or sleep through the night?—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Lots of great insight here! So it seems that a couple of the thoughts you have that generate anxiety include:
“I’m never going to sleep well”
“I can’t function on this little sleep”These thoughts can seem 100% correct when we think them, and that’s why they generate anxiety and worry. If either of these statements were facts, they would be very concerning indeed!
However, if we take a step back and evaluate them we can see that they aren’t all that accurate. When we can recognize this, we strip these thoughts of all their negative power.
So, what evidence is there to support the idea that you are never going to sleep well? How likely is it that you are never going to sleep well? Do you think that there might be a chance (even a small one) that, since others have gone through years — even decades of insomnia — and now sleep well, that perhaps you might be able to, as well?
For the second thought, again ask yourself what evidence is there to support the idea that you can’t function on such little sleep? Is there any evidence to refute that thought? You have lived with this little sleep for two years and are still functioning — so perhaps you can function on this little sleep. Can you think of any good days that followed a bad night of sleep? Maybe some OK days? Maybe even just some OK moments during the day? I suspect that, on reflection, you will know from experience that you can function on little sleep (although it is, of course, sometimes more difficult).
Remember that we are not trying to refute the thoughts you are having, we are just trying to evaluate them to see how accurate they actually are. Thoughts are just thoughts. They aren’t facts. It is our reaction to these thoughts that leads to worry and anxiety. When we take a step back and recognize the flaws in these thoughts, it often reduces the power of the worry and anxiety they can otherwise create.
Finally, it’s important to recognize that five days of sleep restriction is unlikely to immediately correct a problem that you have lived with for two years! Try to stay committed and give the techniques you are implementing more time to work. Most people will notice results within a few weeks. I have no reason to believe that you will not reach that point, too.
I hope this helps.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Great to hear you are keeping active, Kathy — that is so important! Can you describe that feeling of sleepiness you mentioned when you go to bed at 10:00 PM in a bit more detail? What does that sleepiness feel like?
If you are going to bed at around 10:00 PM and getting out of bed between 5:30 AM and 6:00 AM, this means you are allotting between seven-and-a-half and eight hours for sleep. This would be an appropriate amount of time to allot for sleep if you typically get between seven and seven-and-a-half hours of sleep each night.
If you are averaging less than seven-and-a-half hours of sleep each night, you would likely find it helpful to allot a bit less time for sleep. Ideally, the amount of time you allot for sleep should quite closely match the amount of time you actually spend asleep. This will reduce the amount of time you spend awake in bed, and improve your overall sleep quality.
You can read more about this on the sleep restriction therapy for insomnia page.
I hope this helps!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Good to hear back from you.
Are you sleepy or tired at 1:30 AM? Is there a difference between how you feel at 1:30 AM and between 3:00 AM and 4:00 AM?
Have you consulted with a sleep specialist? Someone who specializes in circadian rhythm sleep disorders will hopefully be able to help.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
There’s nothing wrong with lying on the couch when your sleep window ends, as long as you aren’t sleeping on the couch! Sometimes it can take a few weeks of consistent implementation before you notice improvements — the key to success is to stick with it!
You mentioned that you have high anxiety about sleep — what are the thoughts you have that generate this anxiety? When you feel anxious, what is going through your mind?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
It sounds as though you’re doing great, Jen! Typically you’ll want to add 15-30 minutes to your sleep window when your average sleep efficiency (measured over at least a week) is over 85%. It sounds as though you might be at that point right now.
There’s a sleep efficiency calculator on the sleep restriction therapy for insomnia page. You might also find this YouTube video helpful: How (and when) to change your sleep window when implementing sleep restriction for chronic insomnia.
@stevetheadi — If you typically get around five-and-a-half hours of sleep (you are sleeping between 10:00 PM and 3:30 AM), you’d likely find it helpful to start with a sleep window of around six hours or so to reduce the amount of time you’re spending in bed awake. In the short term, it can be hard to stay awake until the start of the sleep window — but that is something we want to achieve over the short term since sleepiness is the only thing that generates sleep!—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sorry to hear about your current struggles with sleep. What is going through your mind when you are finding it hard to fall asleep?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I think it’s important to recognize that sleep disruption can sometimes happen without any identifiable cause. Put simply, our body might simply decide one night that we only need a few hours of sleep.
Unfortunately, when we have experienced insomnia in the past our sleep confidence can still be quite fragile — so our (quite understandable!) reaction to the difficult night can actually lead to further sleep disruption. As soon as we worry, we activate the arousal system and this immediately makes sleep more difficult.
I think the key here is to recognize that bad nights will still happen (they affect everyone, from time to time) and that it is our reaction to these bad nights that determine whether or not they’ll stick around.
If we don’t think about them, if we go about our day as normal, if we avoid compensating for a hard night (for example, by staying in bed longer, going to bed earlier, canceling plans, calling in sick to work, researching sleep, napping, trying to conserve energy, etc, etc, etc) then our sleep will almost certainly get back on track all by itself.
Here’s a link to the podcast episode with Daf: How David overcame three years of insomnia by addressing his obsession with sleep using CBT-I, acceptance, and mindfulness techniques (#8).
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum and I am sorry to hear about your current struggle with sleep. To be honest, it’s not very surprising that the sleep issues returned since medication isn’t a long-term solution for chronic insomnia.
Let me reassure you that you have not forgotten how to sleep, you are still capable of sleep, and you can sleep without sleeping pills! Feeling that you have somehow lost sleepiness or no longer feel sleepy is quite common and is typically a symptom of hyperarousal — you might find this video helpful: How to improve sleep when you don’t feel sleepy and don’t know how to get sleepy.
Sleep restriction works even when you aren’t getting much sleep because it restricts sleep to a certain window of opportunity. Since it’s absolutely impossible to suspend sleep indefinitely, by only allowing yourself the opportunity to sleep during your sleep window you will eventually sleep during the sleep window.
The sleep window is really helpful for building sleepiness and reducing the amount of time you spend awake during the night. As you start to spend less time awake during the night, you will likely find that your sleep-related worry and anxiety will fall, too — and this often leads to further improvements in sleep.
I absolutely think that you’d find CBT-I techniques helpful since they will help change the way you think about sleep and help you implement behaviors that will give sleep the best chance possible. The techniques aren’t easy, but if you are committed and determined, you will almost certainly notice improvements in your sleep.
I hope this helps.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I think that this strategy can be helpful if “performance anxiety” or high sleep effort are the primary barriers to falling asleep. It’s not a strategy that I really discuss with my clients since I haven’t seen enough evidence-based protocols on the best way to implement the strategy — I think that taking advantage of the body’s sleep drive is probably a better way to improve sleep onset times.
Here’s a short video I recorded about paradoxical intention for insomnia.
There are more details about paradoxical intention therapy in Colin Espie’s book, Overcoming Insomnia & Sleep Problems
I’d certainly love to hear from people who have tried this approach and got results from it!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Some great advice in this thread — thanks for contributing, @burn!
It does take time, and consistent implementation, to get results from sleep restriction. The key is to be very consistent with your sleep window and to focus attention on implementation rather than continuously monitoring for results and making constant adjustments.
Sleep drive always wins — we cannot stay awake indefinitely. As long as you only give yourself the opportunity to sleep during your sleep window, you will start to sleep during your sleep window.
I am so glad to hear that you have recognized that medication and alcohol are not a solution!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
