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We are all here for you, Princess — let us know if you have any questions or concerns!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum, Halex. Sorry to hear about your struggles with sleep. Do you have any idea why you seem to wake so often during the night? When you do wake, what do you think stops you from easily falling back to sleep?
Are you currently receiving medical treatment for dissociation? Have you discussed with your doctor whether you’d be a good candidate for CBT-I?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum, Awake Again, and I am sorry to hear about your struggle with sleep.
It sounds as though you are implementing a lot of sleep hygiene techniques, which is good to see — but sleep hygiene is not going to cure chronic insomnia. Furthermore, exercising with the intention of tiring yourself out isn’t going to improve your sleep, either — because exercise leads to fatigue rather than sleepiness.
How long have you been having issues with sleep? Can you talk us through a typical night? When do you go to bed, when do you get out of bed, and roughly how many hours of sleep do you get?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Great question, Steve! The short answer is, you just use your best estimate.
When I have clients fill out sleep diaries, I stress the importance of not clock watching during the night. When filling out a sleep diary, you only need to check the clock twice. Once at night, to record when you went to bed — and once, in the morning, to record when you got out of bed to start the day.
Everything in between is just an estimate.
So, for example, if you know you went to bed at 10 PM, it took two hours to fall asleep, you woke a few times and spent roughly an hour awake during the night, then got out of bed at 6 AM, we can estimate that you got roughly five-and-a-half hours of sleep.
Although this may not seem all that accurate, research suggests that our recall when filling out sleep diaries is actually remarkably accurate — and, even if not, the way we estimate time tends not to change over time. So, sleep diaries are still a great way to measure and assess progress.
I hope this helps!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sorry to hear about your struggle with nighttime awakenings, MP. When you wake during the night, what do you think is stopping you from falling back to sleep?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum and I am so sorry to hear that your doctor simply dished out sleeping pills since these are not a long-term solution and they risk further entrenching insomnia by reinforcing the false idea that you are unable to sleep naturally.
I love your positivity and your attitude and I have no doubt that you will get your sleep back on track. Do keep in touch and keep us all updated with your progress.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum and I’m sorry to hear about your current struggle with sleep.
Do you find that you consistently wake after four to five hours of sleep regardless of when you go to bed at night and regardless of when you get out of bed to start your day in the morning?
When you wake during the night, what do you think is stopping you from falling back to sleep?
Melatonin isn’t going to have any effect on your sleep, so I think it’s safe to say that you can stop taking it (particularly since you’ve discovered for yourself that it’s not effective).
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum and I’m sorry to hear about your recent struggles with sleep. The good news is that since this problem began recently, it should be easier to address.
When do you normally go to bed at night, and when do you normally get out of bed to start your day in the mornings?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I think that if you try to get out of bed by the same time every day you will be off to a great start. Here’s a quick video on why this is so important:
I also suggest that you keep a basic sleep diary for a week so you can record when you go to bed and get out of bed and how many hours of sleep you get. Then, when you look back after a week you will have a better idea of your average nightly sleep duration.
Add half an hour onto your average nightly duration and use that as your initial sleep window (but make sure that you allow at least 5.5 hours for sleep).
More in this can be found on the sleep restriction page.
Good luck!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
It’s so hard for me to read this discussion thread (and that’s why I haven’t contributed much) because I just can’t see how staying in bed with anxious thoughts about sleep is constructive.
I know the goal of ACT is to ‘let go’ — and this can certainly be effective, but if you have high levels of anxiety I just can’t see it being helpful compared to getting out of bed.
Getting out of bed when unable to sleep has so many benefits:
1. It reduces the amount of time you spend in bed awake and frustrated (so you don’t associate the bed with wakefulness and anxiety)
2. It removes you from the bed when you can’t sleep (so you only associate the bed with sleep, not wakefulness and anxiety)
3. It prevents you from staying in bed ‘trying’ to sleep (trying to sleep immediately makes sleep more difficult)
4. It empowers you — when you can’t sleep, you know exactly what to do (get out of bed until you feel sleepy again)If you have amazing mind control and can simply ‘let go’ and accept sleeplessness then I can see ACT being helpful. However, if you have high levels of anxiety about being awake during the night, I just cannot see how staying in bed, tossing and turning, worrying about sleep, is helpful in any way whatsoever.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Is there any particular reason why you don’t practice sleep/bedtime restriction, Edgar?
Generally speaking, the bed should only be used for sleep (and sex). That’s because we want to ‘relearn’ to associate the bed with sleep and nothing else. Think of it this way — when we have insomnia, we have learned to associate the bed with wakefulness. This behavior is learned (we didn’t always have this association) so it can be ‘unlearned’. This is best done using stimulus control techniques.
There’s nothing wrong with practicing a meditation exercise in bed — particularly if you find that it helps you to fall asleep. Remember, though, that the goal of meditation is relaxation, not sleep. So, when you meditate it’s important to recognize that you are meditating to promote relaxation and not as a way of making you sleep.
How long do you typically meditate for when in bed? If you are meditating for longer than half an hour, then I would suggest trying to move the meditation out of the bedroom. Otherwise, if you find it helpful, and the meditation period is relatively short, I think it’s fine to continue doing this in bed if you find it helps you relax and prepare for sleep.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
It certainly sounds as though you have a psychological dependence on the melatonin pills, Steve.
The fact of the matter is this — melatonin supplements are of no use for chronic insomnia.
Here’s how the body uses melatonin to help us sleep:
A few hours before our usual bedtime, the body pulses a nice dose of melatonin through our system. A few hours later, we are ready for sleep.
Every single person’s body emits this pulse of melatonin at a different time. It’s impossible to know with any real certainty when this happens in our own body without undergoing lab testing (and this isn’t even available in the US — but I believe there are a couple of labs in Canada that do it).
So, here’s the problem. If you take supplemental melatonin after the body has triggered this pulse of natural melatonin, the body ignores it. It’s just noise. It has absolutely no effect.
If you get lucky and somehow manage to take the supplemental melatonin before your body triggers its natural melatonin pulse, it still won’t be very effective — because people with insomnia have no problem with melatonin production or regulation!
The only time melatonin supplements can sometimes be helpful is for circadian rhythm sleep disorders — and even then, the evidence is relatively weak and we still don’t know when the best time to take the supplemental melatonin is (for reasons already described).
Also, in the United States at least, what you actually get when you buy melatonin can be very different from what is on the label. This study found melatonin content ranged from 83% less to 478% more than the labeled content (and eight of the supplements tested contained serotonin — a controlled substance used in the treatment of several neurological disorders).
So, being armed with all this knowledge will hopefully help you recognize that the melatonin is unlikely to be having any physiological effect on your sleep.
It can be helpful to try a tapering-off plan if you are finding it hard to quit cold turkey. You could try something like this:
1) Start by reducing your dose in half on two nights per week. Choose easier nights when there is little pressure or work obligations the following day but avoid consecutive nights.
2) Once you feel you are sleeping well on the two reduced dosage nights (this may happen immediately or may take a week or two), you can cut the dose in half every other night.
3) When you are sleeping well on the half dosage nights, you then take the half dose every night.
4) After the dose has been reduced by half on all medication nights, the remaining half dose is eliminated in the same gradual fashion (e.g., the remaining half dose is eliminated two nights a week, then every other night, then every night).Finally, do not take the melatonin contingently. Decide in advance whether tonight will be a reduction/elimination night and stick to that no matter what.
When we take a pill contingently (ie based on how we sleep on a given night), we create a very powerful association in our mind that we are incapable of sleeping without that pill. In other words, we attribute sleep to the supplement or drug rather than recognizing that we slept because of our own natural ability to sleep.
When we take a supplement or drug and have a bad night, we don’t recognize the ineffectiveness of the supplement or drug — instead, we think that our sleep system is somehow broken. So, our perception of our natural ability to sleep is continuously eroded.
Good luck, and I hope this helps.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
That would be great, Steve!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Hello SIimon. Although there is no evidence that chronic insomnia causes any health problem, it would certainly not surprise me to find that people with chronic insomnia have higher levels of cortisol due to the stress and worry associated with finding it hard to sleep.
You mentioned that you tried CBT-I and it didn’t work for you. Although you could be one of the 10-20% of the population it doesn’t seem to work for, I tend to find most people who determine the treatment didn’t work for them sometimes weren’t given the support they needed to be successful.
Can you tell me a bit more about the CBT-I you tried? Was it online or face-to-face? What kind of techniques did you implement, and why do you think they didn’t work for you? Hopefully, I can offer some guidance and advice.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Hello again, Edgar. Are you typically very sleepy when you go to bed at night? Do you sometimes struggle to stay awake until it’s ‘bedtime’?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
