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Yes I agree with you, Sleep. I think the sense of freedom when you stop taking meds is great! They nearly always cause some other side effect and don’t do you any good.
I think this insomnia takes a long time to work its way out. It doesn’t just disappear for most people. When you listen to Martin’s podcasts they were all saying that they just accepted that bad nights still happen. I believe the main thing is to reduce fear around sleep by constantly reminding yourself that you can’t control it, or manipulate it, it will happen naturally like breathing. Remove the focus on it and don’t analyse or measure it.
I’m still not sleeping that well but I’ve had this condition for decades. I’m just not letting it get to me and I’m getting on with my life. I try to give myself time to journal and meditate if I feel stressed and generally work on calming my nervous system to help to reduce fear around sleep.You don’t need them! Just stop them. I went cold turkey with my meds (antihistamines) as they were causing diarrhoea so I had to stop them but you’ve proved you can sleep without yours.
You may get good and bad nights but try to accept what happens as you are much better off without meds.
I get plenty of nights like you described where you just feel anxious and hyper alert. I believe with patience and self compassion things will gradually get better now you accept that you can’t control your sleep. Sounds to me like you are 90% there 👍What I found worked was to allow myself to take something every other night. So if you can’t sleep you can reassure yourself that it doesn’t matter as tomorrow you know you will sleep and can make it up. Sometimes I would find that I was so accepting of this situation that I would actually sleep without taking anything.
If I found I had one good night then one bad night then I would push myself to a 2 night gap before I could take anything. This would false me to be more accepting of the bad nights.
Once you start having nights without taking the medication and you sleep, this gives you confidence to know you don’t need it.
Hope that makes sense. It’s worth a try and a good weaning method. Good luck.Sounds like you have a good attitude. There’s always going to be bad nights here and there.
I’ve learnt not to say ‘I think I’ve resolved my insomnia’ as it does then seem to relapse a bit. It’s as if you’ve opened that seed in your mind again and you have to go back to all the brain work about how ‘it doesn’t matter if I don’t sleep, I can be patient, it will get better’
Keep those fear levels down and accept the bad nights without worrying. Remember you can’t control it so you will sleep when your brain is ready. Probably a good idea to go to bed when you are sleepy too. You’ll be fine.You are welcome. Yes, insomnia is a really crippling problem that disrupts every part of your life. It’s all about fear. Fear of not sleeping, fear of how bad you will feel, fear of having to cancel things, fear of letting people down.
I don’t really know the solution but Martin gives you the best chance of finding it. I wish you luck.Yes I have. I had to stop any form of measuring or analysing my sleep. So I stopped using the Fitbit and also stopped looking at the clock. I didn’t analyse when I went to sleep, how many hours I slept, how often I woke up, how long (approx) I was awake for. None of those things. I just stopped thinking about my sleeping and I accepted whatever happened, good or bad. If I felt I’d had a poor night of sleep and felt tired I just told myself I needed to be patient and I would be better on other nights and it would take time for me to achieve consistently good nights.
So that’s what I would recommend. It’s about switching off any attention to your sleep and let it do its own thing.I completely agree with Chee2308
It is not a need to recover but a need to let go and do nothing!
Just stop! Stop attending to sleep, stop planning for sleep, stop dreading, fearing, manipulating for sleep. It’s natural, it’s out of your control. It’s like trying to manipulate breathing and changing when it happens.
It brings such freedom to let go, because you can’t do anything about it. It’s like crossing it off your list of things you need to sort out in your head.
It’s not even something you have to try hard to do! It’s doing nothing! Relax and just let go of that worry. When the thoughts about sleep creep in just say to your brain ‘thanks for that thought, it’s ok I’ve got this now’. Good luck to all.Hi Mukesh
That’s great news that you are on the recovery path.
You sound like the typical type of person to develop insomnia and I think Martin’s advice is the best way forward.
Good luck and hope you continue to improve.I do agree with Chee2308 but I also think you sound a bit depressed. It’s temporary I’m sure, so don’t worry. I think insomnia saps your enthusiasm and makes you feel as though family and friends don’t understand. You can feel isolated.
I would suggest that you continue to see people as much as you can, don’t pull out of social things as you need them to distract you and help you through this current difficult time.
I felt very much like you but it will get better. Stay strong and try to accept the insomnia and get on with life regardless (I know it’s hard). Work on getting the insomnia into perspective. It is temporary and you can get through it. Also take some time for yourself and maybe do a meditation to calm yourself (not at bedtime). Can you gain some support from one person? Or you can write down how you are feeling to acknowledge your emotions and separate yourself from them. You can then destroy what you write. This is a very good way of working through how you feel and validating it.
Take care and stay strong. You can get through this.Hi Lemon
I started my insomnia after my first baby (1981!). It was caused by having a noisy neighbour and I was trying to go to sleep early before he got back from the pub. As I know now you can’t control sleep so that was a big mistake.
I tried sleeping pills but found they made me feel worse, very hungover and not getting the right kind of sleep, so I gave up on them. I then developed chronic pain in my back, neck and shoulders so I was put on amitriptyline for some years which was great for sleep. However it was not good for my gut health and I had to stop it.
I was a nurse for 35 years (now retired) and worked in very stressful environments and I can honestly say pretty much the whole of my career I worked on next to no sleep but on the days I was off work I would sleep well and lie in and all the things you shouldn’t do 🙄
I had a few years off from insomnia after I split from my husband and I felt calmer and happier and then life events happened and it came back with a vengeance. In recent years I found antihistamine quite helpful. I was always worse when away from home (on holiday or at my boyfriend’s house). I’d be awake all night. One holiday in Italy I went a straight 10 days with no sleep at all! I believe that’s close to the record! I was completely wired up and couldn’t come down, it was awful.
It’s become part of my life, along with chronic pain and gut issues. Every holiday, important social occasion tainted by feeling exhausted 😫
Then a couple of years ago I found out about mind/body syndrome and realised that was my problem. Originating from my childhood and trauma in my life. I’ve had a lot of bereavements and along with a stressful job it’s taken its toll and meant that I was living in a state of hyper alert. Anxiety and depression crept in too so insomnia was impossible to resolve.
I’ve learnt that your brain is the control centre for everything, pain, sleep. Neural pathways from childhood can just replay throughout your life. The neuroscience is fascinating and I would recommend reading about it.
So I realised that my chronic pain was never going to improve without resolving the insomnia. I was tired of taking medication and I became determined to get off it. I did a couple of sleep programmes (one was with a CBTi therapist) none of them helped.
I would also recommend researching mind/body techniques as these help massively. I then found Martin, he was recommended by someone on the mind/body forum on Facebook. His principles are closely linked to mind/body work and I did his free course and then the 6 week course.
I have to say it didn’t immediately help me. I feel it had to percolate in my head for a while 😁. I think insomnia makes you very angry and stubborn. You get tired of people saying ‘ oh yeah I don’t sleep very well either, I only got about 5 hours last night’ 🤦🏼♀️ I would love 5 hours!! At this time I was awake all night for 2-3 nights a week and sleeping maybe 2/3 hours on other nights. I was just battling life and not enjoying it. I felt so dreadful.
Anyway, finally, to answer your question I would say that coming through it was no way linear. It was hit and miss. With the education from Martin that you can’t control sleep and there’s very little you can do to influence it (apart from sleep drive and circadian rhythms). He gave me permission to stop trying and to do nothing!! No more meditations, cognitive exercises, avoiding tv, phones etc – I could do what I wanted in the knowledge that all those things made no difference. I felt a lot of relief but I still wasn’t sleeping reliably. I’d have 1 or 2 good nights and then the anxiety would mount up again and I would be awake all night. So I was almost giving up and going back to some kind of medication when Martin pointed out that I was still focusing on how much sleep I was getting and how I could stabilise it. It is a complete switching off about sleep that is required. Don’t measure it, don’t look at clocks, accept it. It is like breathing, it comes naturally so stop worrying about it. If you don’t sleep it doesn’t matter. It will be back when it’s ready. This last bit has been gradual. A bad night then a couple of good ones but I removed the fear and anxiety from the bad ones. I’ve told myself I must be patient, it will get better and it is. I don’t think about it anymore. If I get a thought about it during the day I say ‘hallo thought, it’s ok I don’t need you now. I’ve got this, you are no longer important!’
So yes….gradual with a lot of brain work 🧠. With sleep, my chronic pain is improving and so is my anxiety. I have also used the mind/body knowledge which has helped me massively (authors are John Sarno, Howard Schubiner, Alan Gordon, David Clarke, David Hanscom, Nicole Sachs).
Martin is the best and only person offering excellent advice about insomnia. His podcasts are brilliant when he talks to people with recovery stories. Check those out if you haven’t already.
If you have read my ramble to the end congratulations! I hope it maybe helps someone. Remember it’s all about the brain and your mindset. Stop the battle, take charge and get on with your life!!Hi Lemon
Thanks for your reply. You are welcome.I couldn’t do it to start with either but with practice it comes. Insomnia does not deserve all your attention. You can’t do anything to influence your sleep so free myself from thinking about it. Stifle it out of your life and enjoy yourself without guilt 😁
That’s really good news that your sleep has improved, although still choppy at times.
I am about 2 months after the course. I can very much resonate with the sleep anxiety you talked about but I am starting to feel it is subsiding for me. I will try and articulate why/how.
Since the course I’ve been alternating better/worse with my sleep and I hit a very bad patch recently when I couldn’t sleep at all and felt so awful.
Martin helped me to realise that I was still focusing too much on my sleep. Thinking about how much I was getting and when it was going to get better.
So…. the question is how to stop thinking about it and allowing it to cause anxiety. It sounds like you have come a long way. It’s a really good sign that you are calm at night and your anxiety seems to be more during the day, which is maybe helping you to get some sleep.
I find it really hard to verbalise how to do it but I am no longer anxious about it and rarely think about it during the day. I still have some not so good nights but they are getting less. I think it’s a mindset that’s like flicking a switch. It’s an acceptance of whatever it’s like, it’s ok. I tell myself that I cannot control or manipulate sleep so that gives me freedom to do whatever I like. I think the most effective thing is to accept it’s going to take time and I must be patient. I must move on and forget about it. So I’ve become much busier during the day, I tell myself I don’t need to think about it anymore. It’s sorted. If I lie awake in bed I accept it and know it’s just a matter of time and my sleep will get better.
I am now sleeping better than I have in decades and I feel so much better during the day. The battle is over, I am no longer struggling with it, or analysing it.
I hope this helps a bit and I feel like you are close to mastering it but you just need to stop caring about it because you can’t change it. Relax, just accept, wait and it will sort itself out. Good luck!Yes we need to stop trying so hard 😩 I know it’s not easy!
I have found changing my mindset to ‘I can’t control or manipulate my sleep so I’m going to stop trying’ is helping me a lot. Every time something pops into my head about sleep I tell myself there’s no need for that thought as there’s nothing I can do to change my sleep. It’s out of my control. It will happen when it’s ready. Accept it.
You are not alone.
Hi Whiskers 25
I have an underactive thyroid too and was diagnosed over 30 years ago. I have suffered with insomnia on and off for longer than that (about 45 years). I don’t believe there is a link but who knows? Maybe there is? Certainly if you are taking too much levothyroxine and you are over replaced I imagine it would affect your sleep.
It’s a very interesting theory and you could be onto something with there being a link. Perhaps any other insomniacs with an underactive thyroid could respond to your message?
My understanding is that insomnia is all about anxiety and that this is often linked to childhood experiences that have created neural pathways to put you on long term high alert. This definitely applies to me, so I try to do a lot of work with mind/body techniques to calm my nervous system. The anxiety can also manifest other symptoms, like chronic pain and gut issues and I have both of these as well. Therefore I believe the foundations for the insomnia come from the anxiety and are not related to my underactive thyroid but I am always open to new theories. Certainly life events also impact on the anxiety so this causes a fluctuation of symptoms. Thanks for your post and let me know if this resonates with you at all?
