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Hi Bchavers ( and frozensun if you’re still on the forum)—-it can read like the same script, just different actors. Of course it’s tragic that so many of us have wandered the same path.
The good news could be that some of have hiked the whole way, and can hike back and see how people still coming up the trail are doing. Not that we don’t still stumble now and then.
A real life stressor like working weird shifts, financial or relationship problems, whatever. And even after resolved, the insomnia has moved in, gotten comfy and figures why not stick around. (Of course it’s not a living being, but sleep anxiety seems to make it so.)
And then the gamut of doctors aka medical engineers, proficient in technology——but ill-trained and disinclined to really listen to your story. They might toss some meds your way, a short term solution at best.
The best resources I have run across are Martin’s course (not getting paid here, I promise). For resources which continue indefinitely, and available even in remote areas, I’ve found mindfulness to the most useful. A couple of sites with plenty of free material (donations welcome but no hassle at all): palousemindfulness.com
mindfulnessnorthwest.comAll of these resources require you to do two things: slow down, and stick with it. Which is hard to do when you’re hammered by insomnia.
Another big component for me has been prayer. If you believe in that, you can reply and can address separately.
I should add that staying with the forum and checking out Martin’s podcasts and other materials can be a big help.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi magickcode, don’t get this wrong, I wish you were not struggling at all. But your account is a fascinating example of how we can intellectually understand a problem (your first paragraph), and yet still get tangled in it (your second paragraph). I do this on a regular basis.. When I am having a setback with insomnia–not thinking quite straight after 3-4 rough nights–I can present myself a logical argument, but then turn around and say, “Yeah, but here’s the thing” and lapse right back into the problem I thought I had just solved. So much for solving insomnia.
How about re-reading what you wrote, but start with the second paragraph, and then read the first?
A thought about sleep hygiene. You’ve probably read the superficial articles that say just relax with warm milk, etc. and everything will be fine. Still, for myself there are certain dos and don’ts. Some people seem to be fine with watching a screen right before bed, not me. And perhaps not you? At least not watching something in bed that leads a “nightmarish vision that’s a mix of something I was watching …..”
Ultimately, though, we cannot control what pops into our head, it’s more a matter of just watching it pass through without globbing onto it, and sometimes we glob onto it anyway. So even when it all comes together (your first paragraph), it’s easy to lapse back (second paragraph). It just happens.
For most of us mortals, we’re not going to achieve blissful perfect sleep every night, but I think you have learned a lot already, just in Week 1.
Hi vandeinseg1: I can relate. I used to (well, still do on occasion) ascribe incredible power to my mind. I saw it as an adversary, maybe even as a separate being. I found that fighting it never worked, it’s just too strong. It never seemed in the mood to negotiate, either.
Actually last night was a little rough (even when you largely get over insomnia, you still get some lousy nights). I wanted to let go of this irritation I am feeling at times regarding a particular individual. Well, my mind wanted to keep rehashing it, and finally I figured I might as well get up and practice guitar.
Okay, I didn’t sleep all that well, but I felt good that I had gotten some practice time in. And it was some specific chord changes I really had to focus on to get right. So my mind was occupied with that instead of the rehashing, at least for a while.
And later the rehashing started up again, but I found able to not dive into it like before, rather just observe it. And then it just sort of faded out later in the day.
It might pop up again in the middle of the night tonight. I’d rather it didn’t, but I don’t think I am going to sweat it. Doesn’t do any good anyway. And as you have discovered, trying to relax doesn’t work, either.
This probably sounds sort of passive, but I used to try all sorts of strategies to win the battle and they didn’t work. Might as well try to control the weather.
Stick with the course, perhaps with special emphasis on thoughts. Martin goes into that quite a bit.
Hi Colin—-re your question about my own heart issue
No, it is unrelated to any insomnia I have had. I have never experienced any symptoms and it doesn’t impinge on exercise or anything. The afib was discovered when I was getting general anesthesia for routine surgery.
I never give it much thought, frankly. Though when I take my pulse, I can tell it is way out of rhythm. I take a blood thinner because untreated means significant risk of stroke.
I mentioned only to include it in a general physical to rule out any physiological causes of insomnia. A cardiologist should be able to tell you if you have afib, some other heart issue, or maybe it’s nothing of consequence.
Hi Colin, I am wondering if it would be helpful to explore further whether physiological aspects are in play.
I am a little confused why you are using a CPAP at this point. I would think you have seen a sleep medicine specialist if you have had a complete sleep study, and that the physician would have recommended a CPAP only if you had received a sleep apnea diagnosis. I use a CPAP, but I have apnea. I am surprised you would even get authorization, including insurance coverage, for a CPAP and supplies without such diagnosis. I certainly would not use one without a doctor’s recommendation. Am I missing something here?
Second, panic attacks. At least in my experience, I would experience difficulty breathing to the point where I thought I was on the verge of suffocating–in other words, major in-your-face panic. But you describe being calm at the point of awakening. This is not to negate what you are going through, but I am thinking a mental health professional might be able to rule out panic attacks once and for all. And if indeed you are suffering from something closely related, short-term, as needed medication could help. Since this would be prescription, it might help to see a psychiatrist, ARNP or other professional authorized to prescribe.
You mention depression. Unfortunately (maybe fortunately to be able to write this!) I know firsthand about this as well. It can lead to early morning awakenings, and sometimes it can be a bit hard to detect, without obvious signs. Or perhaps with a layer of anxiety on top of it, so it doesn’t present as the stereotypical dark, no-energy, maybe even suicidal feelings. Again, a mental health professional could address this with antidepressants.
Sorry this is so long, but I guess we have had some similar experiences. So there is one more, and that’s the rapid heartbeats. This might not be driving the insomnia directly, but I can certainly understand how you would be anxious about it. A cardiologist can typically run tests to see if there is anything to it. For me, it is atrial fibrillation (a-fib), which is dangerous if untreated but is no big deal with medication.
Whew, enough of all that. If it turns out you come out with a gold star on your physical exam, and of course still wondering where in the hell the insomnia is coming from, it may have started because of some life stress, and even if that passed, the insomnia decided to hang around. This is sleep anxiety: >>> I am getting more and more obsessed about not being able to sleep, which is making me exhausted, and now I can’t think straight, and around and around. This one I haven’t found doctors to be a whole lot of help. They are good at medical engineering and maybe they will chuck some pills at you that work for a little while, but that’s about it.
I have gone on too long here, so suffice to say that slowing down and being aware of how anxious you are can help. Way easier said than done. And like Martin says, it doesn’t mean giving up or sucking it up or accepting this is your fate. It does mean stop trying to make sleep happen, and believe me I know you want it to happen. Martin goes into this in detail in the course.
The next time you see a baby or little kid conked out in mother’s arms, know they didn’t put any effort into it.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi concettahough, I hope you will consider taking Martin’s course. He devotes quite a bit of time to how to deal with thoughts surrounding insomnia. They can keep the insomnia going, even after life stresses like divorce, moving, finances etc. have passed.
The course also addresses nighttime awakening, which, as SeanMD91 points out, we can start to see as a threat—so much so that waking up at night becomes a source of anxiety in itself.
Regardless whether you take the course, I hope you stick with the forum, to see the common themes, and also the success stories. You will see that you can’t control sleep, and there are setbacks, but that it can definitely get better.
I agree with Packer Fan. And like he says, there will be setbacks. No one sleeps great every night.
Hi Damers, sorry to hear you’re having a tough time. I think most of us take stuff for granted on occasion, whether it is sleeping well or being able to walk, see, etc. And trying to adjust is tough indeed.
Sometimes people just get situational insomnia, depending on specific things which might be stressing you out. You write that you are going through a lot in your life right now. All this stuff could be interfering with sleep. I know when I have something really on my mind, I am not surprised when I wake up at 3 am thinking about it. And when the stress passes on, sleep can get back to normal.
Great, but what to do in the meantime? Maybe the best thing is dealing as best you can with the lot of stuff you are going through. And at day’s end, figuring okay, I’ve done what i can today. And maybe you sleep better that night.
Insomnia gets to be more of a long term problem when it hangs around even after present day stresses are resolved. When you write that “it doesn’t seem to be going away anytime soon,” this is the insomnia talking. Again, it is perfectly understandable: it is hard to think straight when you are exhausted day after day. It is easy to lapse into the recurring–and powerful–thought that I am stuck like this indefinitely, maybe forever.
A powerful thought, which must be true because it is so powerful. No, it is not true. Sleep will come back into your life. Hard to believe when you are going through it, I know.
I hope you will stay with the forum.
Take care, Damers, you are not alone in this.
Hi JasmineF, it sounds like you are really committed to the course. This is good. The only caveat I might suggest is that despite your diligence, if you are like most people you will have setbacks now and then, even if you are following every instruction to the letter.
And when it happens, not to freak out and think you are a failure. (At least that’s what I’ve done on occasion, and I think a lot of people do.)
Again, at least in my experience, the biggest problem can be sleep anxiety—why can’t I sleep, omg if I don’t get over this insomnia what am I going to do etc etc—which can take on a life of its own, regardless why the setback started.
I hope I am not discouraging you. I think you are on the right track. But it can get a little tricky. Insomnia is not like a fractured bone, which will heal steadily until it’s pretty much as good as new. How you think about setbacks can determine whether they become a large obstacle or just a blip.
Hi Murraytrm, I think you are taking a good approach reading the posts. I try to do the same—and not just when I have hit a speed bump or setback.
Hi Sami1234, there used to be saying, “Don’t believe everything you read in the newspapers.” The updated version is: “Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.” There is something quite attractive, even addictive, about clicking on a site, and then with the “help” of algorithms, you get steered to similar sites.
Fortunately, you have found a reliable site with Martin, so no need to click all over the place.
As you are learning, sleep anxiety is the main driver. If you haven’t been sleeping well lately, it’s understandable that you are anxious about whether you will sleep well tonight. And you can acknowledge it: I’m having the thought that I am anxious about how I’m going to sleep—without sliding into “Oh my God, if I don’t sleep well, what am I going to do? I can’t handle this!”
I am actually going through a bit of a setback myself, so this is not just a theory for me. It is happening right now. And I hope I sleep okay, but I also know I have been here before.
We can’t make ourselves sleep great, but we do have a say in our attitude about it.
Take care, you are not alone, not even close.
You’re welcome, RickyGelo.
And when you have your next setback down the line, you might remember that ‘wait, been here before, I can handle this.’ Although you might have moments in which the thought blasts through that ‘no, this is way worse than ever, I can’t handle this, not this time, not any more.’
It might be a really powerful thought, but that’s all it is, a thought. Truth is, yes, you can handle it.
Hi RickyGelo, sorry to hear you are having a setback. Unfortunately, they happen. I have found the best way to handle them is not let them morph into a catastrophe, instead just viewing it as oh, okay a setback for a bit. I know, easier said than done. But true.
I am intrigued by your observation from the course about “doing things aligned with your values every day despite how you slept.” Note that Martin did not add: “unless what you want to do is really hard, in which case forget it.”
I have no doubt that your training regimen is physically and mentally demanding. I have not done such training. But I remember having to work in court, trying cases to juries, dealing with anxious crime victims, including many children having to face their abuser. It has been years now, but I will never forget how hard it was to get up after yet another night of poor sleep, and somehow get dressed, get to work, and deal with it all. So not physically demanding, unless you include sometimes dealing with migraine pain during the day.
I guess it was all aligned with my values because these kids needed me, and I couldn’t just call in sick and see if someone else could fill in for me—which they couldn’t, because the victims / witnesses wouldn’t know them, the whole life stories and family dynamics took weeks to process.
So how did I do it? I am not Superman, or Mother Teresa. Prayer helped, but I understand if that carries baggage for you. So many hypocrites give religion a bad name. And actually, it came down to just doing the next thing. As in now both of my feet are out of bed, onto the floor. Now I am tying my left shoe. I can do this next thing, my right shoe. At work, now I am picking up this file, now I am walking to the courtroom.
I had to do this periodically. Parents have to do it every day. Same with all sorts of people who have to keep going no matter what they have to do, no matter how well they have slept. People in refugee camps.
Well, I guess I’m going a bit here. To sum up, setbacks are definitely a bummer, but you can make it through. Okay, it is tougher to get out there and do your training when you’re tired. But the alternative is well, to not train today. And to base your training schedule on how well you’ve slept. And if you get into a bad insomnia streak, to wind down the training and maybe quit it altogether. With all your training and competitions, you don’t sound like a quitter.
I hope you can take it moment to moment, and that you check out other people’s stories, both the successes and the struggles. Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi Peppe, it sounds like you are going through a rough time. All I can offer is my own experience. Maybe there is something you can use here. I can say that I have gone through a similar journey.
I wouldn’t say sleep hygiene is a joke, but I agree it only touches the surface, and can seem superficial when the insomnia goes deeper.
“Insomnia makes it impossible for me to live a normal life”—I can relate to this as well, but I would substitute “really hard” for “impossible”– When I was living through what seemed like a slice of hell–exhaustion, the temptation to despair, not go anywhere/do anything— I would try to remember just to focus on the nanosecond, this speck of time, I was in. Not how am I going to deal with driving to the store five minutes from now. Just making it through this nanosecond. Often described as mindfulness and often disparaged as stupid, irrelevant, etc. But the alternative is to try to deal with everything which may happen in the future right now, which is not only overwhelming but unnecessary.
I hope you will stick with the forum and even consider Martin’s course, where he addresses in detail how to not cede power to insomnia, e.g. not planning anything. The forum alone has lots of good info at no charge. There are success stories, and also posts similar to yours—which show there are lots of people out there going through this. We can learn from each other.
I hope you can give yourself credit for making it this far. Don’t give up.
Hi London Jo, suggest you review Martin’s videos about sleep windows, and in general the whole concept of regulating sleep. I believe he covers it early on in the course.
fwiw, I try to go to bed at a fairly definite time, usually between 10:30–11:30 pm. I know some people are not in favor of napping, but I will do it sometimes, but for no more than 20 minutes or so, and only sometime between noon and 2 pm. And if I don’t fall asleep I just get up.
Again, just what has and hasn’t worked for me, I don’t like the idea of napping much later in the day, or for longer periods.
Finally, if I wake up early in the morning and can’t get back to sleep, I just get up. The alternative for me is to lie there and ruminate. I figure I have made it through “tired days” before.
Finally, look at how much stress and effort we can put into sleep, this ongoing battle against insomnia. I have come to believe it doesn’t work, that in fact it’s counter-productive. Hard work pays off when it comes to lots of things–learning how to play an instrument, how to build all sorts of stuff, learning which tool and how to use it, learning to drive…… But I think sleep is something which happens on its own, though unfortunately not always on the schedule we’d like.
