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Hi PamelaLee, I also have struggled with sleep anxiety. I am guessing that a big part of it is stressing out over how you’re supposed to get through the next day. At least that’s a big part for me.
Sometimes I remember that I have made it through 100% of those tough days. You have, too. I think we can give ourselves some credit for that.
HI BenjaminR and RandomName47, I think if the podcast works for you, great. But I sense you both realize that even if it doesn’t keep working, that the larger issue is not obsessing about sleep. Which is hard not to do. I guess that’s the nature of obsession, right?
Sometimes I get so blitzed with insomnia that I don’t have the energy to be anxious about not sleeping. And then I seem to sleep fine the following night. I guess sleep is one of those things that just happens when you’re not trying to make it happen.
Hi jk3775, I am a 73 year-old man with no kids, so I can understand if you dismiss what I am about to say. But it sounds like you are dealing not with specific postpartum depression, but rather yet another example of sleep anxiety, which most of us can relate to.
No doubt you have a specific, present trigger toward awakening, i.e. baby cries and needs your help. But it sounds like this has morphed into a bigger problem. It’s not just baby is crying; I wake up and help; then go back to sleep; baby cries; I wake up and help….etc. —-but rather the anticipating the next time is keeping you awake in the interim. Even when you know you don’t have to get up next time because dad will be handling it.
Not sure I’ve got every detail right here, but I do recall reading about experiments with Buddhist monks with a researcher at the University of…Wisconsin? They were subjected to interruptions of some sort, I think even mild electric shocks. A second group of well, non-monks who had not adopted the practice of focusing on the present moment went through the same process. The second group showed more signs of ongoing anxiety, e.g. increased blood pressure than the monks.
Sorry if I’m not getting every detail right here, but the upshot is the monks were able to recover from the adverse stimulus more quickly. They were able to focus on the post-shock time, moment by moment, without apparently worrying about the next shock, whether that would be coming minutes or hours from now.
Wonderful, if only we could achieve this kind of serenity, right? But maybe to a degree at least? So that yes, baby may well wake you up again later in the night, but in this present moment all is quiet. Whether you call it mindfulness meditation, or exploring how our thoughts can intrude on our present as Martin does in his course….I think it does come down to living in the present moment, or at least giving it our best shot. Alternative: bracing for what might happen in the future, or ruminating about the past.
And no, I have not achieved total serenity by a long shot. Definitely easier said than done.
I hope you will read other posts and check out Martin’s podcasts etc. for other ideas also.
Hi rvlad89, I can relate to your situation. It is one thing to understand how to deal with insomnia logically, but quite another emotionally. The anxiety just barrels on through: as you put it, the amygdala seems to have a different opinion regardless of our intellectual understanding of the issue.
I wish I had a magic solution, but I don’t think there is any solution, in the sense like you can solve the problem of a glass tipping off the edge of a table by placing it closer to the center of the table. My best approach, when I remember, is to just observe whatever is happening, like how anxious I am getting about whether I will sleep better tonight…hopefully, without diving into the anxiety and swimming in it.
Side point: On tiredness, there is a difference, as I’m sure you know, between being tired and being sleepy. After a bad night, I am tired but not necessarily sleepy. I never even attempt a short nap if I’m not sleepy.
I have actually had poor sleep the last few nights. Right now, I’m at the point of recalling that this isn’t my first rodeo; I’d like to sleep better tonight; I can’t control whether I do; and whatever happens, happens. That might sound passive, but I think that’s what all this boils down to.
Hi Bchavers ( and frozensun if you’re still on the forum)—-it can read like the same script, just different actors. Of course it’s tragic that so many of us have wandered the same path.
The good news could be that some of have hiked the whole way, and can hike back and see how people still coming up the trail are doing. Not that we don’t still stumble now and then.
A real life stressor like working weird shifts, financial or relationship problems, whatever. And even after resolved, the insomnia has moved in, gotten comfy and figures why not stick around. (Of course it’s not a living being, but sleep anxiety seems to make it so.)
And then the gamut of doctors aka medical engineers, proficient in technology——but ill-trained and disinclined to really listen to your story. They might toss some meds your way, a short term solution at best.
The best resources I have run across are Martin’s course (not getting paid here, I promise). For resources which continue indefinitely, and available even in remote areas, I’ve found mindfulness to the most useful. A couple of sites with plenty of free material (donations welcome but no hassle at all): palousemindfulness.com
mindfulnessnorthwest.comAll of these resources require you to do two things: slow down, and stick with it. Which is hard to do when you’re hammered by insomnia.
Another big component for me has been prayer. If you believe in that, you can reply and can address separately.
I should add that staying with the forum and checking out Martin’s podcasts and other materials can be a big help.
Take care, you are not alone.
Hi magickcode, don’t get this wrong, I wish you were not struggling at all. But your account is a fascinating example of how we can intellectually understand a problem (your first paragraph), and yet still get tangled in it (your second paragraph). I do this on a regular basis.. When I am having a setback with insomnia–not thinking quite straight after 3-4 rough nights–I can present myself a logical argument, but then turn around and say, “Yeah, but here’s the thing” and lapse right back into the problem I thought I had just solved. So much for solving insomnia.
How about re-reading what you wrote, but start with the second paragraph, and then read the first?
A thought about sleep hygiene. You’ve probably read the superficial articles that say just relax with warm milk, etc. and everything will be fine. Still, for myself there are certain dos and don’ts. Some people seem to be fine with watching a screen right before bed, not me. And perhaps not you? At least not watching something in bed that leads a “nightmarish vision that’s a mix of something I was watching …..”
Ultimately, though, we cannot control what pops into our head, it’s more a matter of just watching it pass through without globbing onto it, and sometimes we glob onto it anyway. So even when it all comes together (your first paragraph), it’s easy to lapse back (second paragraph). It just happens.
For most of us mortals, we’re not going to achieve blissful perfect sleep every night, but I think you have learned a lot already, just in Week 1.
Hi vandeinseg1: I can relate. I used to (well, still do on occasion) ascribe incredible power to my mind. I saw it as an adversary, maybe even as a separate being. I found that fighting it never worked, it’s just too strong. It never seemed in the mood to negotiate, either.
Actually last night was a little rough (even when you largely get over insomnia, you still get some lousy nights). I wanted to let go of this irritation I am feeling at times regarding a particular individual. Well, my mind wanted to keep rehashing it, and finally I figured I might as well get up and practice guitar.
Okay, I didn’t sleep all that well, but I felt good that I had gotten some practice time in. And it was some specific chord changes I really had to focus on to get right. So my mind was occupied with that instead of the rehashing, at least for a while.
And later the rehashing started up again, but I found able to not dive into it like before, rather just observe it. And then it just sort of faded out later in the day.
It might pop up again in the middle of the night tonight. I’d rather it didn’t, but I don’t think I am going to sweat it. Doesn’t do any good anyway. And as you have discovered, trying to relax doesn’t work, either.
This probably sounds sort of passive, but I used to try all sorts of strategies to win the battle and they didn’t work. Might as well try to control the weather.
Stick with the course, perhaps with special emphasis on thoughts. Martin goes into that quite a bit.
Hi Colin—-re your question about my own heart issue
No, it is unrelated to any insomnia I have had. I have never experienced any symptoms and it doesn’t impinge on exercise or anything. The afib was discovered when I was getting general anesthesia for routine surgery.
I never give it much thought, frankly. Though when I take my pulse, I can tell it is way out of rhythm. I take a blood thinner because untreated means significant risk of stroke.
I mentioned only to include it in a general physical to rule out any physiological causes of insomnia. A cardiologist should be able to tell you if you have afib, some other heart issue, or maybe it’s nothing of consequence.
Hi Colin, I am wondering if it would be helpful to explore further whether physiological aspects are in play.
I am a little confused why you are using a CPAP at this point. I would think you have seen a sleep medicine specialist if you have had a complete sleep study, and that the physician would have recommended a CPAP only if you had received a sleep apnea diagnosis. I use a CPAP, but I have apnea. I am surprised you would even get authorization, including insurance coverage, for a CPAP and supplies without such diagnosis. I certainly would not use one without a doctor’s recommendation. Am I missing something here?
Second, panic attacks. At least in my experience, I would experience difficulty breathing to the point where I thought I was on the verge of suffocating–in other words, major in-your-face panic. But you describe being calm at the point of awakening. This is not to negate what you are going through, but I am thinking a mental health professional might be able to rule out panic attacks once and for all. And if indeed you are suffering from something closely related, short-term, as needed medication could help. Since this would be prescription, it might help to see a psychiatrist, ARNP or other professional authorized to prescribe.
You mention depression. Unfortunately (maybe fortunately to be able to write this!) I know firsthand about this as well. It can lead to early morning awakenings, and sometimes it can be a bit hard to detect, without obvious signs. Or perhaps with a layer of anxiety on top of it, so it doesn’t present as the stereotypical dark, no-energy, maybe even suicidal feelings. Again, a mental health professional could address this with antidepressants.
Sorry this is so long, but I guess we have had some similar experiences. So there is one more, and that’s the rapid heartbeats. This might not be driving the insomnia directly, but I can certainly understand how you would be anxious about it. A cardiologist can typically run tests to see if there is anything to it. For me, it is atrial fibrillation (a-fib), which is dangerous if untreated but is no big deal with medication.
Whew, enough of all that. If it turns out you come out with a gold star on your physical exam, and of course still wondering where in the hell the insomnia is coming from, it may have started because of some life stress, and even if that passed, the insomnia decided to hang around. This is sleep anxiety: >>> I am getting more and more obsessed about not being able to sleep, which is making me exhausted, and now I can’t think straight, and around and around. This one I haven’t found doctors to be a whole lot of help. They are good at medical engineering and maybe they will chuck some pills at you that work for a little while, but that’s about it.
I have gone on too long here, so suffice to say that slowing down and being aware of how anxious you are can help. Way easier said than done. And like Martin says, it doesn’t mean giving up or sucking it up or accepting this is your fate. It does mean stop trying to make sleep happen, and believe me I know you want it to happen. Martin goes into this in detail in the course.
The next time you see a baby or little kid conked out in mother’s arms, know they didn’t put any effort into it.
Take care, you are not alone in this.
Hi concettahough, I hope you will consider taking Martin’s course. He devotes quite a bit of time to how to deal with thoughts surrounding insomnia. They can keep the insomnia going, even after life stresses like divorce, moving, finances etc. have passed.
The course also addresses nighttime awakening, which, as SeanMD91 points out, we can start to see as a threat—so much so that waking up at night becomes a source of anxiety in itself.
Regardless whether you take the course, I hope you stick with the forum, to see the common themes, and also the success stories. You will see that you can’t control sleep, and there are setbacks, but that it can definitely get better.
I agree with Packer Fan. And like he says, there will be setbacks. No one sleeps great every night.
Hi Damers, sorry to hear you’re having a tough time. I think most of us take stuff for granted on occasion, whether it is sleeping well or being able to walk, see, etc. And trying to adjust is tough indeed.
Sometimes people just get situational insomnia, depending on specific things which might be stressing you out. You write that you are going through a lot in your life right now. All this stuff could be interfering with sleep. I know when I have something really on my mind, I am not surprised when I wake up at 3 am thinking about it. And when the stress passes on, sleep can get back to normal.
Great, but what to do in the meantime? Maybe the best thing is dealing as best you can with the lot of stuff you are going through. And at day’s end, figuring okay, I’ve done what i can today. And maybe you sleep better that night.
Insomnia gets to be more of a long term problem when it hangs around even after present day stresses are resolved. When you write that “it doesn’t seem to be going away anytime soon,” this is the insomnia talking. Again, it is perfectly understandable: it is hard to think straight when you are exhausted day after day. It is easy to lapse into the recurring–and powerful–thought that I am stuck like this indefinitely, maybe forever.
A powerful thought, which must be true because it is so powerful. No, it is not true. Sleep will come back into your life. Hard to believe when you are going through it, I know.
I hope you will stay with the forum.
Take care, Damers, you are not alone in this.
Hi JasmineF, it sounds like you are really committed to the course. This is good. The only caveat I might suggest is that despite your diligence, if you are like most people you will have setbacks now and then, even if you are following every instruction to the letter.
And when it happens, not to freak out and think you are a failure. (At least that’s what I’ve done on occasion, and I think a lot of people do.)
Again, at least in my experience, the biggest problem can be sleep anxiety—why can’t I sleep, omg if I don’t get over this insomnia what am I going to do etc etc—which can take on a life of its own, regardless why the setback started.
I hope I am not discouraging you. I think you are on the right track. But it can get a little tricky. Insomnia is not like a fractured bone, which will heal steadily until it’s pretty much as good as new. How you think about setbacks can determine whether they become a large obstacle or just a blip.
Hi Murraytrm, I think you are taking a good approach reading the posts. I try to do the same—and not just when I have hit a speed bump or setback.
Hi Sami1234, there used to be saying, “Don’t believe everything you read in the newspapers.” The updated version is: “Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.” There is something quite attractive, even addictive, about clicking on a site, and then with the “help” of algorithms, you get steered to similar sites.
Fortunately, you have found a reliable site with Martin, so no need to click all over the place.
As you are learning, sleep anxiety is the main driver. If you haven’t been sleeping well lately, it’s understandable that you are anxious about whether you will sleep well tonight. And you can acknowledge it: I’m having the thought that I am anxious about how I’m going to sleep—without sliding into “Oh my God, if I don’t sleep well, what am I going to do? I can’t handle this!”
I am actually going through a bit of a setback myself, so this is not just a theory for me. It is happening right now. And I hope I sleep okay, but I also know I have been here before.
We can’t make ourselves sleep great, but we do have a say in our attitude about it.
Take care, you are not alone, not even close.
