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Oh that’s a shame about the video being deleted. Could you not contact Martin so you could access it again? I did find those videos helpful too.
So mind/body authors Howard Schubiner, Unlearn your Pain ; Alan Gordon, The Way Out ; John Sarno, The Mindbody Prescription ; Nicole Sachs, Mind Your Body. There are many more. The theories are predominantly targeting chronic pain but there are numerous mind/body conditions that can all be helped with the principles and techniques. Insomnia is one. You will find many of the authors have podcasts on YouTube. The other great resource is the Curable app. It’s free for 2 weeks and not very expensive if you decide to proceed. It provides everything, education, brain training, meditation, podcasts from experts and recovery stories. Just look it up under Curable.com
Hope that helps. Let me know how you get on.
As I said, the principles are mainly about reducing fear and calming the nervous system.Hi Kira. I have also had insomnia most of my life, certainly 40 years. I’ve always had to take something to help me sleep, usually antihistamine, not sleeping pills as they made me feel worse.
Last August I decided I was going to stop taking anything as the antihistamine was causing me other problems. I literally tried everything, like you, but to no avail. I was sleeping no more than 3 hours for 5 nights and 2 nights a week I would be awake all night.
It was around this time I found Martin. He helped me a lot by removing all rituals and habits to help you sleep and I realised that I was trying way too hard to sleep (I wonder if you are too?) I was doing meditation, cognitive exercises, audio books, none of it worked. I was going to bed thinking what can I try tonight? I was feeling desperate.
Then I decided to do nothing. Like you, I was exhausted and every task was an effort and I had lost all enthusiasm for doing normal tasks. It was such a relief to stop focussing on it and worrying about it. I found the most effective thing was to tell myself ‘it doesn’t matter if I don’t sleep’ ‘I’m resting and I don’t care if I feel rough the next day’
This worked quite well for a while and I was sleeping maybe 5-6 hours a night and that’s enough for me to be able function. I started to feel better and get my life back but then I started to feel scared that it might come back and the anxiety started to build up again.
I have to say the biggest help for me came from the mind/body authors. I suffer with chronic pain as well, which is also related to the anxiety. Insomnia is a mind/body condition and Martin does follow a lot of the same principles. I can point you to some good authors if you are interested.
It’s all about removing the fear and calming your nervous system. Like you, because I’ve had it for so long I wonder if I can ever really resolve it – I don’t know? I hope so 🤞
So currently I’m better but still waking up a lot and not getting back to sleep. I’m following the following principles and hoping I will get back to where I was soon as I know I can do it….
*Only go to bed when you are very sleepy
*Get up at 6am every morning
*Avoid any bedtime rituals or habits
*Take the fear out of it, stay calm and don’t struggle with sleep (stop caring about it)
*Get on with life and don’t think about it during the day
*Get busy, see friends, go out, stop talking about it and tell yourself you are getting on with your life regardless.
It’s hard to maintain, especially when you are tired but I believe it’s the only thing that works. Eventually your brain gets the hang of it and goes to sleep when you give it the opportunity to.
Sorry this has been a long winded ramble and I hope maybe some of it resonates with you. I’m mainly saying you are not alone and mine has been long lasting like yours has. I believe we can resolve it but you have to work on unraveling suppressed emotions (often from childhood) and change your mindset about sleep. You can do this by using mind/body techniques. Good luck!!I agree with you about going back to bed earlier at 10 pm. I find the time I sleep before 12 seems to refresh me better the next day. If you go straight to sleep then that makes sense. It’s also the time the clock in your head seems to be set at.
What time to get up in the morning depends on whether you wake in the night and can’t get back off. If you continue to wake at 3 and can’t get back off you could try using the alarm to get up at 5 for a few mornings and see if it starts to iron out. However, it may be that you have to work on your mindset at 3 in the morning and stay calm and don’t worry about going back to sleep. If you sleep at 10 and wake at 3 even if you don’t sleep anymore you’ve had 5 hours and that’s enough to function on quite easily. Try and take the anxiety out of it and say to yourself it doesn’t matter if I don’t go back to sleep, I am resting, I’ll be fine.
Once you can stop thinking about it too much it may naturally improve. This may not agree completely with Martin’s techniques but I find it works for me.You are welcome Etty and glad it helped.
Last night I’d been out with friends and when I got in bed at 12.00 I was still quite buzzed up. I lay there with my eyes shut for some time. In the past I would have started to think ‘that’s it, I can’t sleep, I’m going to be awake all night’. I would get stressed and start trying to think of things I can do to shut my brain up and get to sleep (meditation, cognitive exercises etc). However, this time I was very calm, I just laid there and thought ‘be patient, just wait…..’ I kept saying ‘be patient’ ……and I went to sleep!
It’s all about mindset. Stay calm and tell yourself it doesn’t matter if you don’t sleep.
So pleased to hear things are improving 👍Hi Etty
Sorry to hear that you are getting so little sleep. I’ve been there and know exactly how exhausting it is. I’m sure you are really struggling to stay awake during the day, particularly in the evenings. My advice is to go to bed when you feel very sleepy and just can’t stay awake (doesn’t matter what time it is, as long as it’s after 10.30pm) and then get up at 6.00am every day. Don’t look at the time during the night.
The real key to solving insomnia is to stifle its importance in your life. Be busy regardless of how much sleep you’ve had. See friends, get on with your life and stop caring about it. My advice is to become ‘not bothered’ whether you sleep, or not. It doesn’t matter……so you feel bad during the next day, so what!!
I find the best thing is to take out any rituals or habits before bed. Do what you like. People who sleep easily don’t even think about it. Go to bed sleepy and tell your brain you are just resting. You don’t care whether you sleep or not. It sometimes takes a while but I lay with my eyes shut and think ‘be patient, I am resting, it doesn’t matter if I don’t sleep’. Read a book before bed if it helps and then you can think about the story when you lie down. Each day fill your day with work, fun whatever you can do and don’t think about it. Sleep doesn’t matter anymore. It will happen when it’s ready. You will give yourself the opportunity to sleep every night, your brain will get the hang of it.
So basically get ‘NOT BOTHERED’ about sleep and sideline it.
It’s taken me decades to overcome severe insomnia but I realise now it’s just about letting go and not focussing on it, not struggling with it, not constantly looking for ways out of the problem. I know it’s hard to do but keep practising and it will work.
Good luck!! You will get better.Hi Johnny
Sorry to hear about your long lasting problems. I suspect that the peeing a lot is related to anxiety, as is insomnia. The benzos helped because they reduced the anxiety. It’s really good news that your sleep has improved and you have been able to get off the meds. I would suggest trying to train your bladder to wait for longer periods during the day. If you make sure you never go unnecessarily eg before going out in case. Try to not answer the urge to go as often as you can and you may find that the urge goes off for a while. You can also do this at night but it’s harder as I’m sure it wakes you up. Eventually you may find that you can go longer in between going and the night time urges improve.
Also worth doing a lot of work on your nervous system to calm your anxiety. Regular meditation and journaling about the things you are worried about. Try to create some mantras in your head like ‘I am safe, I don’t need to pass urine so soon’. The more you go the more you stimulate the bladder to send you messages. You can also try distracting yourself by getting on with life and trying to stifle out the demands from your bladder. If you have been told that there is no structural cause for your symptoms then it is all about your brain over reacting and you need to calm it. Insomnia is much the same.
There are lots of books you can read that help with these symptoms. Happy to recommend some if you are interested. Hope this resonates with you and helps.
Good luck!Hi Edgar
I agree with you. You wrote a call for help about your insomnia and I replied and you then thanked me, which I appreciated.
Maybe people just don’t have any manners now. Or if the reply didn’t resonate with them they don’t bother answering. Like you, I feel people should respond and say thank you regardless.
Hi Edgar. I feel so sad for you and your situation. I don’t have MS or epilepsy but I do have terrible insomnia like you. I can’t see any reason why yours would get worse. I try to tell myself not to worry about things that haven’t happened because it’s a waste of energy as it may never happen.
I have had insomnia for most of my life. Like you, I don’t have nights where I recover I just continue to have either no sleep at all, or I sleep for about 3 hours max. I agree that many people underestimate how much sleep they actually have but in my case I am sitting up in bed reading and know I haven’t slept.
Recently I thought I had found a way to improve my sleep by changing my mindset. I told myself it didn’t matter whether I slept, or not and I was going to get on with my life regardless. Unfortunately my improvement was short lived and I slept about 5 hours for 4 nights. I felt so much better and became excited that my life was going to improve and I had found the way, but sadly the anxiety started to creep in again and I would go to bed dreading the insomnia would come back……and it did 😞
I don’t believe that your brain eventually gives in and gives you sleep. I’m so sorry that I can’t say something more positive. To me it feels like I’m in a maze and I can’t find the way out…. but everyone else knows the way. There’s some special path that you need to take but I can’t find it. Like you I feel wretched every day. Can’t sleep in the day either. Can’t think clearly, feel like my brain is no longer functioning properly.
My only suggestion is mind/body work which helps you to uncover your suppressed emotions and express them by journaling or speaking it. To release any anger, guilt or sadness from your life, particularly from childhood. I have done a lot of this work by using the Curable app and by reading a lot of books about it and listening to podcasts. It helps you to understand yourself. I suffer from chronic pain and that is part of the condition and happens because the brains neural circuits develop incorrect signals and these become ingrained. The principles of mind/body are to calm your nervous system and help yourself to feel safe.
I have tried CBTi and ACTi. I can’t spend anymore money on these things and for me they didn’t help. I’m so sorry I don’t have any solutions but I strongly wanted you to know that you are not alone. You are coping with such a lot in your life with your conditions and you need validation of how brave you are in dealing with this. You should praise yourself that you are very brave and strong to live with these difficulties.
My only advice is to spend as much time as you can with people, friends, family. I believe we have to fill our lives with as much enjoyable things as we can. The more you do that, the less time there is for your brain to dwell on anything negative. I believe that my sleep (and your sleep) will eventually get better. I believe that things won’t get worse for you because there is no reason for that to happen. The mind/body techniques teach you to reduce fear. Fear is what feeds the brain and fuels the anxieties. I have had a number of nasty health issues that occurred suddenly and it has left me very fearful and I believe that it is this fear that prevents me from sleeping, as well as a lot of childhood things that affected my nervous system.
I hope that you can feel some reassurance knowing others are suffering the same issues and I hope maybe some of what I’ve said has resonated with you. If you need any good authors for books then let me know. We must remain hopeful and optimistic. I accept the negative thoughts but tell my brain I’m moving on now and don’t need them. I wish you luck and don’t forget to be kind to yourself and give praise for your ability to cope. Good luck!!!
I’m feeling very sorry for you and know exactly how you feel. I’ve had insomnia for decades but have recently made a major breakthrough. Unfortunately not particularly due to Martin’s course, although I agree with his principles.
I have completely changed my mindset about sleep and I think the main key is to not care whether you sleep, or not. It’s hard when you are desperate for sleep, I know.
So what I did was I removed anything and everything I did to help me sleep, like any routines or techniques. You don’t need meditation, CBT thought games before bed. Go to bed when you are really sleepy, read a good book and say to yourself ‘I don’t care whether I sleep, or not. It doesn’t matter how I feel tomorrow because I’m going to get on with my day regardless’ . Sleep is natural, it will happen naturally and you don’t need to do anything to make it happen. What you have to do is stop analysing it, worrying about it and trying to make it happen. It doesn’t matter, you don’t care, be completely indifferent to it.
I know I have spent years being exhausted, lying in bed awake, stressing about how bad I’m going to feel the next day, struggling to stay awake in the evenings and then feeling wide awake when I get into bed. Feeling so desperate I would be in tears, so anxious, feeling like a freak. Then I thought I’m not going to do this anymore. I’m not going to care about it anymore. I’m not going to let it control me. Whatever it throws at me I don’t care. Eventually sleep will happen because my brain will naturally make sure it does. I don’t need to do anything except get on with my life and stop thinking about it.
So I go to bed now, read, feel sleepy and lie down. If I get all the usual negative thoughts I acknowledge them and tell my brain it’s ok I’m not bothered. I think about how comfortable my bed feels, how warm, soft, whatever. I tell myself ‘just wait, be patient’ and if it doesn’t happen I can read again. I get through a lot of good books!
I now generally sleep about 5-6 hours and if I get up for the toilet I can get back to sleep afterwards. Some nights are better than others but I am feeling so much better. I don’t think about sleep anymore during the day, or even in the evening. My worse nights are when I have something important the next day and I start to think ‘I really need to sleep tonight because I need to be feeling good tomorrow’ and when I do this I often then can’t sleep. So I have learnt to maintain my mantra of ‘it doesn’t matter if I sleep or not’ and I don’t allow that switch in my head to go across and let the anxiety back in again.
Martin’s principles are great but I found the most help with mind/body work which teaches you to calm your nervous system, you can use meditation but during the day and not specifically to help you sleep before bed. There is so much information out there about mind/body work as every symptom we have comes from our brains 🧠 (the control centre) whether it be chronic pain, insomnia, migraine, gut issues. I can recommend a lot of authors but it’s not fair for me to do this on this forum.
Insomnia is all about anxiety and forming negative neural pathways in your brain that you can learn to change. Think about people in your life who sleep well. They don’t need to do anything special to achieve it, they don’t even think about it! That’s exactly what you need to do. Take away its importance and take charge. I hope this can help you a bit and good luck, you can get better.
Agree with everyone! Michael61 has described exactly what everyone needs to do and others have endorsed this and added their own tips.
I am doing the same as Michael61 and adding in the mantra ‘it doesn’t matter if I sleep, or not’. It’s not important. Life is important and sleep is out of my control and will happen when it likes. I just need to give it the opportunity. It’s like flicking a switch in your head. Stop thinking about sleep, stop trying to control it, stop trying to use ANY aids to help you sleep. You don’t need them. As already mentioned, people who have no difficulty sleeping don’t use aids.
I’ve stopped thinking about what time I should go to bed. I go to bed when I feel sleepy. I don’t look at the clock at anytime. If I wake up in the night (which I do) I don’t check the time and I just think ‘if I don’t go back to sleep it doesn’t matter’. These thoughts seem to cancel out the anxiety. If I do get any anxious thoughts I acknowledge them, say thank you brain, but they are just thoughts and not relevant to me anymore. I don’t get out of bed (apart from to use the toilet) and sometimes I read but not for long. I am currently sleeping much better with these techniques and I’m finding I don’t even think about it anymore. Sometimes I feel tired in the day but it doesn’t matter. I’m not chasing ‘a better night tonight’ it’s just not important. I really hope others can grasp this. It really does work. Good luck everyone.I’m sorry to hear that and generally do agree to take the drug free route if you can.
I wasn’t suggesting that your friends or family help you, what I meant was to see friends without discussing your problems, but just to socialise and change your focus. It’s hard to stop thinking about your situation and worrying about sleep if you are at home alone – so if you go out it moves your focus and helps you to get some perspective. I know it’s very hard for other people to understand true insomnia so I mostly don’t bother talking about it.
I hope you can get out and lift your mood somehow. Sleep will come eventually. Good luck 🤞Oh no 🤦🏼♀️ I’ve been there and really sympathise!!
Are you doing the sleep window? I know when you have had no sleep for days it just cripples you and you lose the motivation to do anything. I frequently have the same problem and know how desperate you feel and how depressing it is.
I have to say that when that happens I usually end up taking something to help me sleep just for a break!! Then when I get a reasonable night I can calm myself down and rethink what I’m going to do.
I still believe that Martin’s course is the right thing to do as we have to retrain our brain. Have you done it in the past? It says you are not a client now?
If I was you I would try and get out with some friends or family. Don’t talk about your insomnia, just have some laugh and normality, however bad you feel. I find being with people picks me up and helps me find perspective.
You can sleep again and your body will give in and sleep eventually. Try to have some life regardless, it definitely makes you feel better and I know hard it is to do but it is the best therapy you need right now.
Don’t give up, you will get better, stay positive as it is temporary.Hi Walter64
I’m new to the course too. I’m really hoping to gain something from Martin’s techniques. I am enjoying the freedom of no rituals or aids to try and control sleep, as he suggests. Like you, I’ve had insomnia for a long time and I understand we are just stuck in a mindset and need to retrain our brains.
I’m currently working on allowing the negative thoughts to happen and am not trying to block them or distract myself. I try to say thanks to my brain for protecting me and reassuring myself that wakefulness is not a threat.
I’ve answered a few other questions so don’t want to repeat myself too much but just wanted to say you are not alone and I am going to trust the process and try to learn all I can from this course.
Good luck and keep sharing how it’s going for you.Hi Marc
Sorry to hear your story but know you are not alone.
I’ve had insomnia for most of forty years and it started after I had my first baby. Have had different meds over the years but going it alone now as I realise it’s all about the brain and the meds are just a temporary fix and do nothing to rectify the problem.
It’s all about an overactive nervous system and being hyper vigilant.
I’ve just started Martin’s course and remain hopeful as I feel our best bet is the ACTi approach that he uses.
I feel your pain with how horrible you feel and I know how it cripples my life too but we are, as Martin describes, stuck!! We have to work on changing our mindset and retraining the brain.
You are doing better than me as I have frequent all nighters when I read a book all night and all attempts to sleep fail. I never sleep more than 3 hours. I am starting to unravel the struggle a little by trying to accept the negative thoughts and stay calm.
I remain hopeful that things will improve if I can find the key to the puzzle. I know it’s there somewhere.
I wish you luck, don’t give up and stay positive.
