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Welcome to the forum!
If you feel that you might benefit from a different approach, I think you’d find my online course helpful. The different approach involves implementing behaviors that help create and maintain good conditions for sleep while also building new skills in responding to nighttime wakefulness and all the difficult thoughts and feelings that might come with (or after!) it in a more workable way — a way that helps remove you from the battle and moves you away from the ongoing struggle that can make things so much more difficult.
I am not sure of the science behind the claim that a heart rate needs to be below 65 for sleep to happen. Sleep will always happen when we’ve been awake for long enough, regardless of how quickly or slowly our heart might be beating. And, in any case, we cannot directly control our heart rate, right?
If your heart rate is a concern, it’s important to talk to your doctor! If there’s no explanation, it might be related to the struggle — all the effort that’s being put into making sleep happen, getting rid of wakefulness, trying to fight or avoid the difficult thoughts and feelings that often come with insomnia. When we are preparing for (or engaged in) a battle, it makes sense that our heart rates would increase!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome aboard — I’ve moved your post into the client forum now you’ve enrolled!
You definitely are not alone and we’ll be exploring all the challenges and issues you described as the course progresses 🙂
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sometimes routines can be helpful, and sometimes they can be unhelpful. And often, the difference comes down to how controllable our goal might be.
If we follow a routine because it helps us get to work on time and do things that are important to us, then that’s more likely to be helpful.
If we follow a routine because we are trying to make sleep happen, get rid of wakefulness, or fight or avoid difficult thoughts and feelings, that might be less helpful — since we cannot directly or permanently control any of that stuff.
A sleep window isn’t something that can make sleep happen. What it can do is help us move away from chasing after sleep, trying to make it happen (something that can make things more difficult).
You could always experiment with allowing yourself to go to bed a bit earlier than the start of your sleep window if you feel sleepy enough for sleep. The loss of sleepiness you described can happen when our brain fires up to “protect” us from what it considers to be the threat of nighttime wakefulness — and it can learn to think of wakefulness as a threat because of all the effort we might put into trying to fight or avoid it!
You mentioned that you experience hours of stage 1 sleep — did you learn that from polysomnography in a sleep lab?
As you continue to work through the course we’ll be exploring ways of responding to wakefulness that might also help you retrain the brain that wakefulness isn’t a threat that it needs to be quite so alert to protect you from at night!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sleep is one of those things that we cannot directly control. The more we try to control the amount or type of sleep we get, the more likely we might be to end up struggling. So, I have no recommendations to offer for any substances that claim to induce deep sleep (a stage of sleep that’s prioritized by the body anyway).
As you work through Week 1, hopefully you’ll pick up some helpful information and insights that will start you on your journey away from the ongoing struggle that is so very difficult.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Lucky you, having a couple of good sleepers there! How do you currently respond to the nighttime wakefulness when it shows up?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Yikes — sorry to hear about your fall.
I am not a snoring expert, so I can’t offer much there. I can see how that could make sleep a whole lot more difficult, though!
In terms of sleep challenges unconnected to snoring, you started your post by saying that you are fighting insomnia. What might happen if you ended that fight?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
The thing about sleep drive is we never lose it — when we’ve been awake for long enough, we will always fall asleep.
What can temporarily overpower sleep drive are all our ongoing (and understandable!) attempts to make sleep happen.
Ultimately, sleep cannot be controlled — and the more we try to get rid of wakefulness the more our brains might learn to believe that wakefulness is a threat that it needs to be alert to protect us from. Ironic, I know!
We can’t switch off our brains (just as we can’t switch on sleep) — and the more we try to control what cannot be controlled, the more we might get tangled up in an ongoing struggle that can make things more difficult.
I hope there’s something helpful here.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
It sounds as though you read some scary articles and your brain fired up to protect you — and that might have pulled you back into a bit of a struggle.
As you likely know from experience, we can’t control our thoughts — and since some of them can be really difficult to experience and since we recognize that some of them can be unhelpful, we can easily get tangled up in a battle with them, trying to fight or avoid them.
That, in turn, can make everything more difficult!
So, what you might want to explore is acknowledging all the thoughts your brain is generating (and maybe even thanking your brain for looking out for you!) and allowing them to come and go as they choose. Being kind to yourself if they feel difficult. And then continuing to do things that matter to you.
PS: There is no evidence that insomnia causes any health problem; associations, links, and “maybes” are not the same as causation 🙂
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I think you might have hit the nail on the head there! How old is your little one?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I think that comes down to your intent.
If you are thinking about changing your sleep window in an attempt to control what cannot be controlled (how much sleep you get or when you wake during the night) then that might not be helpful.
If you are thinking about changing your sleep window so you can do more of the things that matter to you and help you live the life you want to live, that might be helpful!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum! How do you currently respond to those awakenings when they show up?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I am so sorry for your loss, Mane. No doubt things are very difficult for you right now and it makes sense that with that difficulty might come some sleep disruption, too. Do you have any friends or family to help support you during this difficult time?
Are you experiencing consistent sleep disruption over the past couple of months, or do you experience ups and downs of pretty good sleep and disrupted sleep?
Please be kind to yourself because what you are going through is extremely difficult and words can’t really describe it. You are in my thoughts and I wish you all the best.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
The traditional CBT-I approach involves getting out of bed after a certain amount of wakefulness. The idea being that being awake in bed can reinforce an association between the bed and nighttime wakefulness.
This approach can be helpful — evidence proves it.
Some people struggle with it, though — especially if getting out of bed becomes a sleep effort. Something that is done in an attempt to get rid of wakefulness or make sleep happen.
In my experience, the problem here isn’t that the brain associates the bed with wakefulness (after all, think of all the people who sleep well and yet they spend a lot of time awake in bed watching TV, reading, scrolling on their phones, etc).
The problem is that the brain can associate the bed with struggle — and it’s the ongoing struggle that makes sleep more difficult, generates difficult thoughts and feelings, and draws us into a battle that can put our brains into overdrive!
So, what might be helpful is to practice moving away from struggling with wakefulness and any difficult thoughts and feelings that might choose to show up.
Instead of trying to fight the wakefulness and any difficult thoughts and feelings that come along for the ride, we can practice acknowledging their presence and allow them to come and go as they choose.
We can also engage in a more pleasant activity if that will help us experience wakefulness with less struggle — and since the goal is simply to practice moving away from the struggle, it probably doesn’t matter whether we stay in bed or get out of bed.
I hope this helps!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Hello again Lujesa!
Did sleep restriction at least reduce the amount of time you might have been spending in bed, trying to make sleep happen? Or, did you find that it had no value or benefit whatsoever? (Either option is perfectly fine, I’m just trying to get more of an idea of your experience here.)
Sleep restriction (although it has an awful name!) shouldn’t deprive you of sleep since it usually involves allotting an amount of time that is at least as long as your average nightly sleep duration over the past week or two.
Is there a difference between your approach to sleep in the days when it wasn’t an issue or a concern, and now?
Do you feel as though your struggle with sleep might be influenced by trying to make it happen? How much effort do you find yourself putting into sleep? How hard do you try to avoid nighttime wakefulness when it shows up?
As you have seen here, you aren’t alone. What you’re going through is hard, so please be kind to yourself, too.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Ah yes, the ups and downs of sleep — something that is out of your control! How did you respond to the more difficult nights? Were you able to be kind to yourself and continue to do things that matter? Were you able to practice moving away from struggling with wakefulness and any difficult thoughts and feelings that chose to show up?
Waiting to go to bed until we are sleepy can be useful — it’s a bit like waiting to eat until we are hungry, right? Of course, we might be able to sleep before we are sleepy (just as we might still be able to eat before we are hungry) but there are never any guarantees!
If you are feeling comfortable when awake in bed, there might not be any need to force yourself to stay out of bed until long after your planned bedtime — that in itself might be an attempt to control something that cannot be controlled (ie, sleep!) and come with the potential of creating some struggle!
Wakefulness itself isn’t really the problem — it’s a normal part of sleep. It’s our attempts to get rid of it that can end up making things more difficult!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
