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Hello Pam and welcome to the forum. It is completely normal to be concerned by the experience you have described. Do these sudden awakenings only occur just as you are about to fall asleep, or do they happen at random times during the night?
If they only occur as you are about to fall asleep, they may be a symptom of self-monitoring. By this, I mean that because sleep has become such a big issue in your life, when you go to bed you set yourself the task (probably unconsciously) to keep checking if or when you are asleep. Not only does this make it harder to fall asleep, when you do fall asleep and your mind notices this, it will suddenly wake you up to inform you of this victory!
Of course, it goes without saying that this is not constructive! So, how do you stop this self-monitoring? After all, telling yourself not to check whether you are asleep or telling yourself not to worry about sleep is easier said than done! You would probably find CBT-I techniques helpful since they will naturally strengthen your sleep while reducing sleep-related worry.
First of all, make sure you have a regular (and appropriate) sleep schedule. Next, make sure that you get out of bed whenever you can’t sleep. Finally, take steps to unwind before going to bed. Reserve the hour before bed as a buffer zone during which time you engage only in relaxing activities that you enjoy.
I hope this helps!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with others in the forum. I have no doubt that they will take a lot of comfort in what you have shared and be reassured that CBT-I is a powerful ally when it comes to improving sleep.
You mentioned that you have the occasional relapse — this is completely normal! Even the best sleepers in the world have a bad night every now and again, so it’s only to be expected that you will have a bad night every now and again, too.
If this ‘relapse’ comes from not implementing techniques you know to be helpful and effective, I would suggest that this is more of a ‘lapse’ than a relapse since you know that reimplementing the right techniques should, once again, lead to improved sleep. So, as I suspect you are aware, you shouldn’t be unduly hard on yourself when bad nights happen — because they are normal and to be expected.
Instead of focussing on the fact a bad night happened, try to focus your efforts on the cause of the bad night and see if you can address that cause (for example, not implementing a certain CBT-I technique, too much stress at work, etc). Since we can’t control sleep, tackling an identifiable source of disturbed sleep is usually a better strategy.
When it comes to implementing stimulus control, I suggest giving yourself roughly half an hour in bed before getting up. Don’t clock watch this period of time — just use your best estimate. So, if you go to bed and don’t fall asleep within about half an hour (or if you wake during the night and don’t fall back to sleep within about half an hour), get out of bed. Then, when out of bed, give yourself roughly half an hour (or wait until you feel sleepy) before getting back into bed and repeating the process.
As for activities to try when out of bed, I simply suggest anything that is relaxing and enjoyable. A book or relaxing music can be good options.
I’m happy to hear that you’ve been finding imagery helpful. You might find progressive muscle relaxation beneficial, too — but I would encourage you to practice this during the day for a couple of weeks before trying it when in bed. Relaxation is a skill and takes time to learn, so getting a couple of weeks of daytime practice in before trying it at night is often a good idea.
Dartmouth College offers a number of free relaxation downloads, including a progressive muscle relaxation download.
Finally, remember that the ultimate goal of relaxation is relaxation — not sleep! So, don’t practice relaxation with the expectation that it will immediately lead to sleep.
I hope this helps, and thanks again for your contribution. I hope to read more of your posts in the future!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
It’s still possible to practice sleep restriction even if you don’t sleep for several nights in a row because sleep restriction simply means observing a more appropriate overall sleep schedule.
With that being said, you really should direct your questions to a physician or other licensed healthcare provider due to your history and your particular circumstances.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum. Can you tell us a bit more about your sleep? How do you want it to improve? What are your sleep goals?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum! You are absolutely correct when you say that acceptance (or simply “letting go”) is easier said than done! Cognitive and behavioral techniques can help change the way many of us with insomnia think about sleep so we have more constructive thoughts and behaviors towards sleep.
First, unless you are finding that you sleep at random times during the day, it’s unlikely that you are living with narcolepsy.
The body actually prioritizes the deepest, most restorative levels of sleep over REM sleep and that’s why deep sleep occurs in the earlier part of the night.
What makes you concerned about your dreams? As you know, dreams are normal — so are you concerned that your dreams are leading to less restorative sleep?
If so, what evidence do you have to support this, and what evidence do you have to refute this? Thinking it through like this can help you determine if the idea that your dreams are reducing your sleep quality is accurate, or if the idea is more likely to be an automatic thought that might not be entirely accurate.
Have you spoken to your doctor or a sleep specialist about your concerns in the past six months? If you are worried about your sleep architecture, an overnight sleep study may be helpful.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum, Andy. I’m glad you found us and took the time to introduce yourself.
The past six months must have felt very challenging, exhausting, and frustrating and this period has no doubt increased the amount of anxiety you are living with.
My first recommendation would be to make sure you are allotting an appropriate amount of time for sleep based on your average nightly sleep duration.
Next, make sure you are using your bed for sleep only. If you are lying in bed and unable to sleep, it’s a good idea to get out of bed for half an hour or so (or until you feel sleepy) before getting back into bed and repeating the process.
Over time, the combination of following a regular and appropriate sleep schedule, and getting out of bed when unable to sleep, will make the bed a much stronger trigger for sleep. As soon as your sleep begins to improve, anxiety levels will naturally fall — and this will lead to further sleep improvements.
I hope this gives you an initial strategy. Have you considered taking a course of CBT for insomnia?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Those issues definitely sound as though they’d be a good starting point — what is stopping you from tackling them?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
You’re certainly right that a number of different paths lead to insomnia — and that’s why CBT-I uses a number of different strategies to improve sleep.
I completely agree that simply prescribing a sedative isn’t addressing the root cause of any sleep issues. Although sleeping pills can be helpful for short-term sleep issues, they are not a long-term solution.
I wish you all the very best of luck on your journey to improve your sleep. If you ever take that month-long camping trip, be sure to report back!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I would urge you to discuss your sleep and your suicidal thoughts with your doctor without delay. If you are not happy with your current doctor, seek a second opinion.
It sounds as though you would likely benefit from CBT-I, but in-person therapy would likely be the best choice for you due to your extremely high levels of anxiety and the fact you are having suicidal thoughts and have been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder.
My course uses evidence-based CBT-I techniques, so you will likely recognize many similar techniques as you learned in the Sleepio course. With that being said, I am not sure how much support you get with Sleepio — clients of Insomnia Coach (my course) get ongoing personal support and feedback from me for the entire duration of the course. This support is not restricted to each Session — clients can email or text me at any time at any point during the course for support, reassurance, and guidance.
My course does include sleep restriction. It is still possible to practice this, even if you cannot sleep for several nights in a row. We calculate the amount of time to allot for sleep based on an average nightly sleep duration calculated using at least one week of sleep diary data.
I hope this helps and, again, I urge you to seek medical advice without delay if you are having suicidal thoughts.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
You are getting results because of your commitment to the techniques you are learning, Jeff. Keep up the effort and your sleep will continue to improve!
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Hi Sheri. One study that looked at individuals with both depression and insomnia found that addressing insomnia using cognitive behavioral therapy helped alleviate both insomnia symptoms and depressive symptoms. Cognitive behavioral therapy for depression also helped alleviate depressive symptoms and insomnia symptoms, but focussing on sleep was found to have the best long-term results.
So, my thoughts on this are that insomnia and depression are related, with both feeding off one another. I also have no reason to suspect that following CBT-I techniques will be less effective simply because an individual is also living with depression.
For best results, sleep restriction should be combined with stimulus control so that the time you spend in bed is spent asleep, rather than awake. Over time, this makes the bed a strong trigger for sleep.
There are two ways of determining your ideal sleep window. Once you have figured out how much time to allot for sleep, you can either count back from when you need to be out of bed to start the day, or you can count forward from when you normally feel drowsy and ready for sleep.
If you wake during the night and don’t fall back to sleep within about half an hour, you should get out of bed for about half an hour before returning to bed and repeating the process. Of course, this will lead to less than five-and-a-half hours for sleep, but the opportunity is still there for five-and-a-half hours of sleep, and this is what is key.
Nights of less than five-and-a-half hours of sleep will build sleep pressure, so as long as you don’t do anything to reduce this sleep pressure (such as going to bed before the start of your sleep window, napping during the day, or staying in bed past the end of your sleep window), sleep becomes increasingly more likely over the coming nights.
It’s also important not to have any expectations regarding your sleep. You mentioned that a sleep window of 12:30 am to 6:00 am would mean you would only be asleep from 1:00 am to 3:00 am — however, you have no way of knowing that with absolute certainty. I would imagine that sometimes this would be accurate — but not always!
I hope this helps.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum, Lisa. CBT-I often takes a few weeks of dedicated, consistent practice before you experience truly recognizable results. What kind of CBT-I techniques are you following at the current time, and how long have you been doing CBT-I?
CBT-I is the gold-standard treatment for insomnia and is effective over the long-term because CBT-I teaches skills that can be used for the rest of your life. So, if sleep problems ever return in the future, you will be armed with all the techniques needed to get rid of them and improve your sleep again without needing any additional solutions or treatments.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Sorry to hear about your struggles, Silversly54. Since the last time you discussed your sleep with a doctor was a few years ago, I would suggest trying again. Recognition of sleep issues has increased over the past few years and are now taken more seriously than perhaps they were in the past. If you are still not happy with the advice from your doctor, it might be worth trying to see a sleep specialist.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
I’m sorry to hear about your three months of sleep issues and that you haven’t received much in the way of support or advice from the medical community. That is frustrating, disappointing, and something that needs to change.
I wouldn’t encourage you to use a sleep tracker. That’s because they can be inaccurate and increase sleep-related worry and anxiety, and therefore make sleep more difficult.
It is highly unlikely that cancer is causing your sleep issues (but if you are concerned that you might have cancer you should discuss these concerns with a doctor). The vast majority of insomnia cases are caused by the mind — and this makes sense when you consider that the mind is what controls all our bodily functions (including sleep).
There are three primary mechanisms involves in sleep. First, there is sleep pressure (also known as sleep drive). This builds during the day and increases our desire to sleep so that, at night, we are prepared for sleep. Next, we have the sleep/wake cycle — this is the internal body clock that recognizes that mornings are times to be alert and evenings are times to be relaxed and ready for sleep.
Unforunately, the third mechanism (the arousal system) can override both sleep pressure and our natural sleep/wake cycle. The arousal system is an evolutionary survival system that helps us suspend sleep in times of danger. So, if a caveman heard a saber-toothed tiger rustling around, the arousal system would be activated to prevent him from falling asleep and potentially getting eaten!
Of course, we don’t have to deal with these kinds of threats anymore — but the arousal system still holds huge influence over our sleep. When we worry about sleep, the arousal system is activated. When we actively ‘try’ to sleep, the arousal system is activated. When we feel stress or anxiety, the arousal system is activated.
So, the key to improving your sleep is to reduce the power of your arousal system and to strengthen the power of sleep pressure and your sleep/wake cycle. CBT for insomnia is designed to do just this, and that is why it’s so effective. If you can’t find CBT-I locally, there are programs online (such as mine) — however, since some of the techniques can be challenging, it’s important to choose a program that comes with plenty of personal support, guidance, and feedback from a sleep coach or other professional.
The good news is that the sooner you take steps to resolve your sleep issues, the easier it will be to resolve your sleep issues.
I hope this helps.
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Welcome to the forum, Lucichic. It’s quite upsetting how difficult we make it for our school-aged children to sleep. Fortunately, there is a campaign to delay school start times and it’s slowly gathering momentum. As you recognized, forcing children to wake early in the day not only leads to less sleep, it can set our children up for sleep issues well into adulthood.
Although five-and-a-half hours of sleep at night isn’t ideal, it’s generally thought that a minimum of around five-and-a-half hours of sleep provides us with the absolute minimum ‘core sleep’ that we need. Of course, it’s usually good to get more sleep than that — but since we can’t control how long we sleep for, it can be comforting and reassuring to simply recognize that five-and-a-half hours can often be enough.
Can you tell us a bit more about your sleep? When do you normally go to bed and when do you normally get out of bed? Do you tend to find it difficult to fall asleep, stay asleep, or both? What do you think is keeping you awake at night?
—If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.
The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
